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Politics => Politics => Topic started by: RealityHasALiberalBias on June 18, 2017, 09:33:03 PM

Title: Religion vs. Science
Post by: RealityHasALiberalBias on June 18, 2017, 09:33:03 PM

(https://s11.postimg.org/79nmytgkv/18920984_1365026456917126_7193129459763234446_o.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/79nmytgkv/)
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: SpaceCadet on June 18, 2017, 09:57:13 PM
I've been meaning to get that shirt.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: Calypso Jones on June 18, 2017, 11:51:02 PM
10 famous scientific theories that were later debunked.

https://www.famousscientists.org/10-most-famous-scientific-theories-that-were-later-debunked/ (https://www.famousscientists.org/10-most-famous-scientific-theories-that-were-later-debunked/)
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: Calypso Jones on June 18, 2017, 11:53:13 PM
Sometimes science gets it wrong.

https://www.themarysue.com/science-gets-it-wrong/ (https://www.themarysue.com/science-gets-it-wrong/)
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: Calypso Jones on June 18, 2017, 11:59:20 PM
2009. National Geographic celebrates april fool's day by reminiscing over some scientific HOAXES.

https://answersingenesis.org/human-evolution/piltdown-man/big-science-hoaxes/
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: Calypso Jones on June 19, 2017, 12:01:34 AM
scientific frauds and forgeries.

https://answersingenesis.org/human-evolution/piltdown-man/fraud-and-forgery-in-paleoanthropology/
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: Mornac on June 19, 2017, 12:02:11 AM
10 famous scientific theories that were later debunked.
Sometimes science gets it wrong.
--Now, now - let's remember that they are only human, hence, eternally flawed by the sin of Adam.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: Calypso Jones on June 19, 2017, 12:04:39 AM
Piltdown man, kudzu in the south, Africanized bee release, lovebugs in florida, starlings from Europe brought to north America, Lucy, heat pumps, replacing R13 with a worse product.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: Mornac on June 19, 2017, 12:10:09 AM
Piltdown man, kudzu in the south, Africanized bee release, lovebugs in florida, starlings from Europe brought to north America, Lucy, heat pumps, replacing R13 with a worse product.
--How utterly embarrassing for them. Can't you show a little mercy????
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: hurricanehook on June 19, 2017, 12:11:00 AM
there is a God (http://time.com/77676/why-science-does-not-disprove-god/)

 
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: Mornac on June 19, 2017, 12:14:24 AM
there is a God ([url]http://time.com/77676/why-science-does-not-disprove-god/[/url])

--Please hook. If "SpaceCadet" is exposed to much more of this, he's never gonna get one of those tee shirts!
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: SpaceCadet on June 19, 2017, 12:15:47 AM
Yes, science gets things wrong.  There is even fraud in science sometimes.  The difference is that science is a self-correcting process, and religion can never admit that it has gotten anything wrong.

When I hear scientific news that suggests that some of our most fundamental scientific ideas may be wrong, I don't get scared and try to deny it.  I get really excited, because it means we may be close to making a big jump in our understanding of the universe.  Of course, the contradictory information must be independently confirmed, to make sure it's not the result of some sort of error.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: Calypso Jones on June 19, 2017, 12:34:37 AM
You're absolutely right there space.   The bible has not changed in over 2000 years and it is as relevant today as it was in the days of oral tradition and then written word.   Science on the other hand is dancing as fast as it can to make corrections on a daily basis when they are shown to be wrong....or caught.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: SpaceCadet on June 19, 2017, 12:36:12 AM
You're absolutely right there space.   The bible has not changed in over 2000 years but science must make corrections on a daily basis.

There's no reason for fairytales to change.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: SpaceCadet on June 19, 2017, 12:38:12 AM
But to the topic of the thread, can you think of any scientific theories that have been proven wrong by religion?  The examples listed were disproved by science.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: Calypso Jones on June 19, 2017, 12:48:25 AM
But to the topic of the thread, can you think of any scientific theories that have been proven wrong by religion?  The examples listed were disproved by science.

God is older than science.. God Made science.   Although the bible is not a science book,  when it does make a scientific statement and I do believe I have posted that here within the last day or two, is has been shown to be correct....every time.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: SpaceCadet on June 19, 2017, 01:06:11 AM
God is older than science.. God Made science.   Although the bible is not a science book,  when it does make a scientific statement and I do believe I have posted that here within the last day or two, is has been shown to be correct....every time.

What scientific statements?  "There is a Creator and he has made heaven and earth...there is one life and after that comes judgement."?

Or that the first woman was made from Adam's rib.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: ivanm on June 19, 2017, 05:55:30 AM
You're absolutely right there space.   The bible has not changed in over 2000 years and it is as relevant today as it was in the days of oral tradition and then written word.   Science on the other hand is dancing as fast as it can to make corrections on a daily basis when they are shown to be wrong....or caught.
The value in scientific theory comes from applying it to do something useful. For example Einstein's theory of relativity has been used a number of times. We might not have semiconductors and these little PCs had it not been for guys like him.

Without the advances of science we would still be walking, not even riding in a horse carriage.  I studied electronics and repaired radar and radio sets while in the AF, and without a scientific understanding of those devices I couldn't have done squat.
Vacuum tube theory was easy to visualize but solid state theory was a bit confusing
so I had to change my thinking, just as science changes its thinking. That is why we live in a world of plenty and not in some biblical cave, we are flexible.
 
Religion has its purpose but without science we wouldn't even have bibles to read.
Over the years there have been a few changes in the bible. The principles are perhaps the same but the translations have changed slightly.


Why is it that billions of Asians can live and do quite well without the bible? One needs to remember that back in the early days of the bible there were many questions but few food answers so people devised some explanations and credited many phenomena to a higher power or a God.  Science had not yet evolved to the point in ancient Israel so that it could provide answers, but in the mean time the ancient Greeks and Romans were steadily developing scientific answers and were applying the principles in useful ways.

And they had gods running out their ears. This frequently comes up as a clue in the
crossword puzzles, and different groups each had their own superstitions. The primary ancient groups seem to be Roman, Greek, and Norse. Why is it the younger areas of the universe, in terms of developed populations, are more advanced than the older parts? Could it be they are not shackled by old adages and religious superstitions?

Calypso, here is one for you.  Liberals dare to be different where conservatives are afraid of getting out of their comfort zones.  What group do the libs belong to?
How about the cons?  I don't think zombies and cave men got us to the moon.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 08:10:30 AM
there is a God ([url]http://time.com/77676/why-science-does-not-disprove-god/[/url])


Oh, you are proceeding incorrectly here.  Don't try to substantiate the existence of your fairy tale by what science does not do.  Your statement that there is a God stands or falls on its own merit let's see you offer proof for your fairy tale chuckles.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 08:13:23 AM
God is older than science.. God Made science.   Although the bible is not a science book,  when it does make a scientific statement and I do believe I have posted that here within the last day or two, is has been shown to be correct....every time.

I would offer you the same offer I extended to hook: don't just stand on your assertions and do some work to prove the existence of God.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: ivanm on June 19, 2017, 09:54:00 AM
I would offer you the same offer I extended to hook: don't just stand on your assertions and do some work to prove the existence of God.
As I have said before, God exists in the conceptual or virtual manner but I haven't seen any evidence to prove he exists in the corporeal sense. As long as people believe he exists in reality  then that is sufficient because a healthy fear of God helps to keep most of us in line.

The Abrahamic religions have different names for the being that Christians call God.  Jews call him Jehovah and Muslims call him Allah.  I wonder, do each of the religions have a different concept of what he is like?
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 09:58:19 AM
As I have said before, God exists in the conceptual or virtual manner but I haven't seen any evidence to prove he exists in the corporeal sense. As long as people believe he exists in reality  then that is sufficient because a healthy fear of God helps to keep most of us in line.

The Abrahamic religions have different names for the being that Christians call God.  Jews call him Jehovah and Muslims call him Allah.  I wonder, do each of the religions have a different concept of what he is like?

I was actually speaking to Bullshit Jones who is both aggressive and obnoxious about religion.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: ivanm on June 19, 2017, 10:12:39 AM
I was actually speaking to Bullshit Jones who is both aggressive and obnoxious about religion.
Sorry, but I wasn't directing my comments at you.

There are two types of sects, the doctrinaire ones and the service ones. Being a Methodist, and a poor one at that, I am service oriented. I believe that action speaks louder than words.

I was married in a redneck Southern Baptist church in Oklahoma and that experience really turned me off about head peckers. We have a few in this little town but for the most part people stay out of other's faces with their beliefs.  As much as I criticize the Catholics the locals keep their damned mouths shut. And this river valley is crawling with them, what with a church in each little town along the river's path.  I find that unusual because Kansas is a bunch of Protestant farmers for the most part.

Hey, we all get along, and that is the nice part of living here in Podunk America.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: RealityHasALiberalBias on June 19, 2017, 10:28:01 AM
I would offer you the same offer I extended to hook: don't just stand on your assertions and do some work to prove the existence of God.

You are, of course, wasting your time.

We have watched their hate fester and grow for how long?
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: RealityHasALiberalBias on June 19, 2017, 10:35:53 AM
There are two types of sects, the doctrinaire ones and the service ones.

Yes. Now take it a step or two deeper.

You have logic and reason, and then you have faith. What you're seeing in Caroline, Mornac, Hurricanehook, and Hose Queen is a complete rejection of logic and reason and a desperate attempt to supplant logic and reason with some version of their faith. So what would compel people to reject logic and reason and try so hard to supplant logic and reason with their own faith?

Like all human behavior, the answer is complex. There is no one reason. However as I observe these particular specimens they all share similar fear of the unknown, which is silly if you think about it. We came from nothing and we will return to nothing, as many millions have done before and as many billions will do.

Part of growing up is realizing that we are mere mortals. These people can't handle that so they glom onto their preferred mythology.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: ivanm on June 19, 2017, 10:44:00 AM
I was actually speaking to Bullshit Jones who is both aggressive and obnoxious about religion.
She and Mornac seem to be directing their sermons to the more liberal thinkers on the forum.  And by liberal I mean open minded and considerate of viewpoints other than their own.

If I want to hear sermons I will go to church and don't need them here.
 
A prime example of religious bigotry is the Islamic idea that infidels should be
converted, exiled, or killed. I am not buying it.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: RealityHasALiberalBias on June 19, 2017, 10:45:13 AM

Religion has its purpose

Religion is a search for and an attempt to relate to one's creator. It is faith. As such it is personal. Any attempt to impose one's faith on others is evil.

You do not understand my religion. Not that I'm the end all or be all of it, but it is not an attempt to impose anything on anyone. But too you have to understand that I am a Reform Jew, which is an almost entirely different theology than an Orthodox Jew. Our tradition is a liberal tradition in every sense of the word. It is about God creating people, and putting a little bit of Herself in every person's heart and therefore serving people is serving God.

But too, you need to understand that even that statement begs the question as to what is God?

Yes, religion is a personal journey to answer that question. I don't believe that God is a jealous, vindictive old man pulling switches somewhere.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.

And anyone who says they know the ways is a blasphemer. That includes Caroline, Hurricanehook, Mornac, and Hose Queen.

They are here to proselytize. But ultimately behind their holier than thou bullshit is pure hatred. It's not a rational hate, either. It's a rotating list of people they need to feel superior to, even though they, themselves, are nothing.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 10:45:42 AM
You are, of course, wasting your time.

We have watched their hate fester and grow for how long?

I do not expect much from them.  Just putting their gibberish on record.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 10:47:47 AM
She and Mornac seem to be directing their sermons to the more liberal thinkers on the forum.  And by liberal I mean open minded and considerate of viewpoints other than their own.

If I want to hear sermons I will go to church and don't need them here.
 
A prime example of religious bigotry is the Islamic idea that infidels should be
converted, exiled, or killed. I am not buying it.

They are trying to use their beliefs as a weapon.  You can almost hear the delight in Bullshit Jone voice as she is letting people know Jesus will have his revenge.

Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: ivanm on June 19, 2017, 10:48:23 AM
Religion is a search for and an attempt to relate to one's creator. It is faith. As such it is personal. Any attempt to impose one's faith on others is evil.

You do not understand my religion. Not that I'm the end all or be all of it, but it is not an attempt to impose anything on anyone. But too you have to understand that I am a Reform Jew, which is an almost entirely different theology than an Orthodox Jew. Our tradition is a liberal tradition in every sense of the word. It is about God creating people, and putting a little bit of Herself in every person's heart and therefore serving people is serving God.

But too, you need to understand that even that statement begs the question as to what is God?

Yes, religion is a personal journey to answer that question. I don't believe that God is a jealous, vindictive old man pulling switches somewhere.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.

And anyone who says they know the ways is a blasphemer. That includes Caroline, Hurricanehook, Mornac, and Hose Queen.

They are here to proselytize. But ultimately behind their holier than thou bullshit is pure hatred. It's not a rational hate, either. It's a rotating list of people they need to feel superior to, even though they, themselves, are nothing.
Thank you for the update on your beliefs.  Head peckers to tend to be a pain. 
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: RealityHasALiberalBias on June 19, 2017, 10:48:25 AM
I do not expect much from them.  Just putting their gibberish on record.

My comment is only nominally directed at you. I have trouble addressing any of them directly. The only thing that ever expressed my direct thoughts to them was and remains "fuck off + die."

But they're too stupid and hateful to appreciate the significance of being told to fuck off. They are Crusaders and they still think it's good for them to impose their religious beliefs on others.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: ivanm on June 19, 2017, 10:51:03 AM
My comment is only nominally directed at you. I have trouble addressing any of them directly. The only thing that ever expressed my direct thoughts to them was and remains "fuck off + die."

But they're too stupid and hateful to appreciate the significance of being told to fuck off. They are Crusaders and they still think it's good for them to impose their religious beliefs on others.
Fundamentalist believers are taught  that it is their duty to save the world. The South is crawling with them, and Mornac is the first Catholic I have met that is a fundie. His sect is apparently a small part of  the bigger Catholic movement.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: RealityHasALiberalBias on June 19, 2017, 10:51:23 AM
Thank you for the update on your beliefs.  Head peckers to tend to be a pain.

Not so much an update on my beliefs as it is my rejection of "head peckers," to use your terms. Although you did ask how I could use the word "She." Why not use the word "She" to refer to God? If it pisses off the "head peckers," so much the better.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 10:52:06 AM
I enjoy watching them paint themselves into corners little realizing they have done so.  I actually enjoy Mornac's inability to address Russel's tea pot.  I do not like laughing at the mentally challenged but they make it so hard not to.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: RealityHasALiberalBias on June 19, 2017, 10:52:27 AM
Fundamentalist believers are taught  that it is their duty to save the world. The South is crawling with them, and Mornac is the first Catholic I have met that is a fundie. His sect is apparently a small part of  the bigger Catholic movement.

They are dangerous. They are evil.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: hurricanehook on June 19, 2017, 01:28:28 PM
Oh, you are proceeding incorrectly here.  Don't try to substantiate the existence of your fairy tale by what science does not do.  Your statement that there is a God stands or falls on its own merit let's see you offer proof for your fairy tale chuckles.

have your science prove there is not a God.

Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 01:49:37 PM
have your science prove there is not a God.

You fail as usual.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: hurricanehook on June 19, 2017, 01:55:14 PM
You fail as usual.

hardly angry.

simply show us the scientific papers that absolutely disprove

the existence of a divine being, God.

you failed.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 01:57:07 PM
hardly angry.

simply show us the scientific papers that absolutely disprove

the existence of a divine being, God.

you failed.

Where exactly do you think science is about disproving God?  Show us something outside your ignorance about this claim.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: hurricanehook on June 19, 2017, 02:00:50 PM
Where exactly do you think science is about disproving God?  Show us something outside your ignorance about this claim.
angry,

the title of this thread is " Religion vs. Science".

take it from there, angry.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 02:08:02 PM
angry,

the title of this thread is " Religion vs. Science".

take it from there, angry.

Sorry count twatula, the title of the thread won't save you from having to think.  Where do you get this idea that science is concerned with the need to prove or disprove the existence of God.  Those who posit the existence of God take the obligation of proving God's existence.  It is a terrible burden because it involves you standing and defending an unfalsifiable claim.  I know to the bozoputer booping and blipping in your head that sounds like a strong position but it is not.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: hurricanehook on June 19, 2017, 02:23:32 PM
Sorry count twatula, the title of the thread won't save you from having to think.  Where do you get this idea that science is concerned with the need to prove or disprove the existence of God.  Those who posit the existence of God take the obligation of proving God's existence.  It is a terrible burden because it involves you standing and defending an unfalsifiable claim.  I know to the bozoputer booping and blipping in your head that sounds like a strong position but it is not.

so angry,

let me sum up this conversation.....

I believe in God

you do not.

O.K.

fine by me.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 02:29:53 PM
so angry,

let me sum up this conversation.....

I believe in God

you do not.

O.K.

fine by me.

Poor summary.  You asserted the existence of God.  I said your assertion stands or fall on its own merit.  Simply waiting for you to stand up for your belief.  Of course, I do not expect you to do this given your lack of ability.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: hurricanehook on June 19, 2017, 02:37:14 PM
Poor summary.  You asserted the existence of God.  I said your assertion stands or fall on its own merit.  Simply waiting for you to stand up for your belief.  Of course, I do not expect you to do this given your lack of ability.

angry,

science did not place me on this Earth.

God did.

you may believe what you want, but I believe there is a Supreme God.

guess we are at a stalemate.

Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 02:39:52 PM
angry,

science did not place me on this Earth.

God did.

you may believe what you want, but I believe there is a Supreme God.

guess we are at a stalemate.

Keep asserting things.  you cannot back up.  I am going to say you probably got here the usual way: your father put his penis in your mother's vagina and ejaculated.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: hurricanehook on June 19, 2017, 02:44:16 PM
Keep asserting things.  you cannot back up.  I am going to say you probably got here the usual way: your father put his penis in your mother's vagina and ejaculated.

angry,

your childish post's are becoming more amusing.

Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 02:47:19 PM
angry,

your childish post's are becoming more amusing.

You said god put you here.  I am suggesting you got here by your dad, or sperm donor screwing your mom.  If you want to contest that fine by me.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: hurricanehook on June 19, 2017, 02:56:26 PM
You said god put you here.  I am suggesting you got here by your dad, or sperm donor screwing your mom.  If you want to contest that fine by me.

yep.

God put everything here angry...

even you angry.

God still put you here,

even though you do not believe in Him.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 19, 2017, 02:57:46 PM
yep.

God put everything here angry...

even you angry.

God still put you here,

even though you do not believe in Him.

God put your father's penis in your mother's vagina?
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: hurricanehook on June 19, 2017, 03:05:08 PM
God put your father's penis in your mother's vagina?
angry,

seems like a strange question.

but it is not.

God has a plan for everyone and everything.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: RealityHasALiberalBias on June 19, 2017, 03:07:26 PM
angry,

seems like a strange question.

but it is not.

God has a plan for everyone and everything.


Why can't you just say that you have your own beliefs which are personal to you, and leave it at that? You don't speak for God.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: RealityHasALiberalBias on June 19, 2017, 03:08:18 PM
angry,

seems like a strange question.

but it is not.

God has a plan for everyone and everything.

What exactly do you think you're accomplishing here?
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: hurricanehook on June 19, 2017, 03:10:32 PM

Why can't you just say that you have your own beliefs which are personal to you, and leave it at that? You don't speak for God.

O.K.

I speak for myself.

God's words are His.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: RealityHasALiberalBias on June 19, 2017, 03:24:54 PM
O.K.

I speak for myself.

God's words are His.

Then show some humility for once. You don't have the answers.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: hurricanehook on June 19, 2017, 03:38:44 PM
Then show some humility for once. You don't have the answers.

that is correct libass,

God has the answers.
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: ivanm on June 20, 2017, 12:59:57 PM
angry,

your childish post's are becoming more amusing.
And very crude.  Absolutely no class or sense of decency.

Using his line of reasoning, his father had a wet dream and his mother rolled in it.   ::)
Title: Re: Religion vs. Science
Post by: AngryRedMan on June 20, 2017, 01:11:24 PM
And very crude.  Absolutely no class or sense of decency.

Using his line of reasoning, his father had a wet dream and his mother rolled in it.   ::)

You do not know how women become impregnated?