the Obama-pacolypse giddyup's in on 10% unemployment

[Boffo]

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not to mention hyperinflation, and a national debt that our great, great, great grandchilden will be pissing on our graves over

Way to go Barry!

I'll sit down now and listen to the wailing moan "it's Bush's fault" to those who curl up in a ball when asked about the Democrat congress he had to deal with

http://tinyurl.com/lwgnt2

[Velleity]

Of course the current state of the economy is Bush's responsibility. That goes without saying. The economy that Obama inherited was in horrible shape. It still isn't great but it has better prospects than it had when Obama took his hand off the Bible, which is about as good as anyone had any right to expect.  Everything of consequence happened on Bush's watch, unless you have an objectively reasonable argument to the contrary.

That would be refreshing Boffo, if a rightist could offer an objectively reasonable argument to the contrary.

Surely you're not going to argue against the fact that employment is the last thing to recover in a recovery, and that further unemployment wasn't expect and even predicted by Obama.

Sure Obama didn't predict it would be this high but making such a prediction would have been irresponsible. These things arguably have a self-fulfilling aspect to them as so much of the present economy is based on expectations and consumer confidence.

Erin Burnett this morning explained, too, that part of this is a revision upward because the higher consumer confidence has brought more job seekers, who were previously discouraged. If that is true than it is actually a positive sign, and every day it seems that we have more and more positive signs.

Finally, Boffo, what is it that you and your fellow rightists are accomplishing? Your glee over potentially bad numbers and your eagerness to undermine Obama is doing what, exactly, other than contributing to the general malaise of our nation? I can understand Polaris, the foreigner, wanting to contribute to the general malaise. But what of you and Observer? Do you have any constructive contribution to make? Do you have anything constructive at all?

[Velleity]

As for "hyperinflation," isn't that just a wee bit hyperbolic? I mean really. One of the known hangovers and costs of allowing the economy to crash and burn is the potential inflation caused by the policies that are necessary to counter and lessen the fall.

Speaking of Bush's fault, if there is inflation or even hyperinflation it absolutely was proximately caused by Bush's "tough shit for you" approach to the middle class. In fact I would trace this problem back Reagan, who set this whole "conservative" thing in motion.

[Pepsi]

U.S. Economy Gets Lift From Stimulus

WASHINGTON -- Government efforts to funnel hundreds of billions of dollars into the U.S. economy appear to be helping the U.S. climb out of the worst recession in decades.

But there's little agreement about which programs are having the biggest impact. Some economists argue that efforts such as the Federal Reserve's aggressive buying of Treasury debt and mortgage-backed securities, as well as government efforts to shore up banks, are providing a bigger boost than the administration's $787 billion stimulus package.

The U.S. economy is beginning to show signs of improvement, with many economists asserting the worst is past and data pointing to stronger-than-expected growth. On Tuesday, data showed manufacturing grew in August for the first time in more than a year. "There's a method to the madness. We're getting out of this," said Brian Bethune, chief U.S. financial economist at IHS Global Insight.

Much of the stimulus spending is just beginning to trickle through the economy, with spending expected to peak sometime later this year or in early 2010. The government has funneled about $60 billion of the $288 billion in promised tax cuts to U.S. households, while about $84 billion of the $499 billion in spending has been paid. About $200 billion has been promised to certain projects, such as infrastructure and energy projects.

Economists say the money out the door -- combined with the expectation of additional funds flowing soon -- is fueling growth above where it would have been without any government action.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125185379218478087.html

[Pepsi]

I suppose conservatives would have preferred the second Great Depression to government stimulus?

[Velleity]

I suppose conservatives would have preferred the second Great Depression to government stimulus?

I think you give them too much credit. They don't seem to be that aware or concerned about any consequences. They are all slash and burn.

Never mind that they lack blades and fire.

[Boffo]

"Of course the current state of the economy is Bush's responsibility." -V

I'll give you this, Vel , Bush spent like a Democrat knocking the Republican party for a loop across the board.

and ask you why you hide from the fact that he was signing budgets passed by Democrats.

His old man "read my lips -Bush" succumbed to the pressure as well.
If it makes you feel better, I'll never vote for either of them again.

"That goes without saying."-V
then why say it?  you gettin' paid by the word?

I just love it when you guys screech about the stimulus/bailout scams being Bush's doing, and then slink away from....APPLAUD as your "Change you can believe in" President perpetuates the scams with a passion, and ???fold dollars and debt.
You should get your story straight.

You think you can have it both ways as you get willingly  hypnotized by the softball lobbing "media" but the polls don't lie and your unqualified, inept pretty boy is sinking like a rock.

As you weep about Republicans trying to destroy this national disgrace of a Presidency, you ignore the fact that no President in history has EVER sniped at their predecessor more, attacked the opposing party more or polarized the nation more than this charismatic fluff brained teddy bear, Obama

[Boffo]

"I suppose conservatives would have preferred the second Great Depression to government stimulus?" -Pepsi

and how many times have YOU referred to Bush starting the fire, Pepsi ?

Maybe you should scour the yard for "little green spouts" and ignore the oak trees, 9.7 and climbing unemployment and a debt that makes China pretty much our owner and landlord.  egg roll, please

[Velleity]

I'll give you this, Vel , Bush spent like a Democrat knocking the Republican party for a loop across the board.

and ask you why you hide from the fact that he was signing budgets passed by Democrats.

The problem goes deeper than that Boffo. Your compatriots don't approve of my subscription to Keynesian mainstream economics even though they clearly know nothing about Keynesian economics or economics in general. Observer in particular believes he knows everything and that his pure bluster and bravado wins the day for him.

The most egregious error your compatriots make is their baffling adherence to the fraud which is "supply-side economics."

I suggest you look at the post I posted last night, linking to Professor Krugman's new comprehensive article. If you can shoot down Krugman with reasonably objective arguments, well then you should be in the running for a Nobel Prize. I do not pretend to have Professor Krugman's ability or talent, so I humbly defer to him.

As for Democrats, I don't believe I have ever claimed they weren't complicit.

His old man "read my lips -Bush" succumbed to the pressure as well.
If it makes you feel better, I'll never vote for either of them again.

Why would I care who you voted for? It's your right and I vigorously support your participation and fulfillment of your civic duty. I would prefer to see that you had a good argument for whomever you support but if you did not you would certainly not be alone.

"That goes without saying."-V
then why say it?  you gettin' paid by the word?

I believe the words convey a certain meaning. I'm not sure how these words come to offend you.

I just love it when you guys screech about the stimulus/bailout scams being Bush's doing, and then slink away from....APPLAUD as your "Change you can believe in" President perpetuates the scams with a passion, and ???fold dollars and debt.
You should get your story straight.

I don't see any scams. I actually give Bush credit for casting aside his ideology and doing exactly what had to be done. I do note hypocrisy on your side in this regard, blaming it all on Obama.

As far as I can tell from the information I have seen the trillions of dollars spent have accomplished the goals, to the chagrin of you rightists.

You think you can have it both ways as you get willingly  hypnotized by the softball lobbing "media" but the polls don't lie and your unqualified, inept pretty boy is sinking like a rock.

Is that what I think?

I thought I thought that you rightists were counting your chickens before they were hatched. Given the polls before the 2004 election I should think you would understand why. <shrug>

As you weep about Republicans trying to destroy this national disgrace of a Presidency, you ignore the fact that no President in history has EVER sniped at their predecessor more, attacked the opposing party more or polarized the nation more than this charismatic fluff brained teddy bear, Obama

Really?

Do you have anything objective to back up this assertion? After that please explain to me, as someone who just a few sentences ago told me that he would never vote for Bush again (presumably because you do not approve of either of them), why this makes any difference whatsoever?

As I said, I think you're counting your chickens before they're hatched.

Of course I could set out all of things that "this charismatic fluff brained teddy bear" has done to reach out to Republicans, and I can lay equal claim to the term "unprecedented." Then we can talk about how ridiculous and over the top the right has been. But I'm sure you have no room in your cosmology for these facts.

Actually Boffo none of this will matter. The only thing that ever matters is how it turns out. For Bush it turned out that there were no weapons of mass destruction and that we would have been well advised to have not invaded Iraq. It also turned out that he fell flat on his response to Hurricane Katrina. It also turned out that deregulation and tax cuts for the rich was both foolish and detrimental to 99% of us, to the point where he brought us to the brink of the Great Depression II. It also turned out that the unitary executive thing wasn't appreciated by most of us. . .

Movement conservatism is done. You can argue that it's Bush's fault or you can argue that it collapsed under its own internal inconsistencies the way the Soviet Union collapsed. Either way it is done, and it is not going to return.

[Velleity]

Maybe you should scour the yard for "little green spouts" and ignore the oak trees, 9.7 and climbing unemployment and a debt that makes China pretty much our owner and landlord.  egg roll, please

What's you solution?

Observer thinks we should allow another Republican Great Depression. Do you share that sentiment? If so you ought to welcome the unemployment. It's a good thing, right?

[Observer]

That's odd... I have never read anything by Observer calling for another Great Depression.

You are lying again.

Keynesian Economics has been thoroughly discredited and few people actually subscribe to it anymore. It was proven unworkable when FDR almost destroyed the country  and worsened and lengthened the Great Depression by foolishly and irresponsibly using it as the foundation for his recovery scheme.

It took a World War and the loss of almost half a million Americans to get us out of the hole he dug.

[Velleity]

That's odd... I have never read anything by Observer calling for another Great Depression.

You are lying again.

Keynesian Economics has been thoroughly discredited and few people actually subscribe to it anymore. It was proven unworkable when FDR almost destroyed the country  and worsened and lengthened the Great Depression by foolishly and irresponsibly using it as the foundation for his recovery scheme.

It took a World War and the loss of almost half a million Americans to get us out of the hole he dug.

Prove any one of your baseless assertions.

Note that from one side of your mouth you're saying that you don't think the "remedy" is to do nothing while from the other side of your mouth you make baseless assertions, that you never have and never will be able to support, that directly contradict your original denial.

What a fucking mess you are.

[Observer]

English is not your primary language, is it?

[Velleity]

English is not your primary language, is it?

I could fix the sentence but why bother? You do contradict yourself.

Further you have never even come close to justifying your bare conclusions. You haven't defeated Keynesian economics. You clearly don't even understand what it is as you don't understand anything about any legitimate school of economics. You only know talking points.

You refuse to even try to understand, claiming that you know everything just because you do.

So what's the point in discussing any of this with you?

[Pepsi]

I'll give you this, Vel , Bush spent like a Democrat knocking the Republican party for a loop across the board.

Give me something else; Bush and the GOP congress spent like drunken sailors from 2000-2006 and very, very few conservatives raised a stink about that.   In fact they mostly defended it.   

Secondly most economic theory says you strive for a balanced budget when times are good and government is the spender of last resort when times are bad.   Most conservatives were saying how great the economy was during Bush's years (which we now know was based on an inflated real estate bubble and consumer borrowing)  so why did the federal budget deficit only increase when they were in charge and what evidence do you ahve that they are the ones who will reduce spending and deficits if they gain power again?

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter" ~Dick Cheney