Try as they may, the media can't seem to wish this one away

[vel]

How do you know this?

You know how I know this.

[johnhp]

How do you know this?

They same way everyone does...you are posting.

[vel]

They same way everyone does...you are posting.

Haha.

True, but he knows the other way that I found out about his lie.

[dagon]

Not really much of a story, now is it? A small group of pro-choice folks apparently think it would be a hoot if they "infiltrated" an anti-choice gathering and disrupted it for a few minutes? Mr. Vortex is free to think that this is some kind of important development in the history of this issue - or to pretend to believe it for the camera - and, naturally, you are, too, but I'm not impressed.

By the way, Mornac, I'm curious about something. What are your views on the standard practice by fertility clinics of fertilizing multiple ova and keeping them frozen, then disposing of them? Does life also, in your view, begin at conception in a lab dish? If so, would you favor legislation that would ban these medical/scientific practices, as well?

Given your rigid, anal-retentive need to micromanage every aspect of a conversation, I'd actually be amazed if you bothered to respond. Surprise me.

go over to the headbutters archives doug.  i covered this with matilda a couple of years ago.  i'm not sure if mornac weighed in.  predictably,  all i got as an answer from any of the "pro-livers"  over there was essentially  "huh uh but huhhhha, hu uhhh, dobey do huh."

http://www.network54.com/Forum/559420/message/1219415579/exciting+stem+cell+news

http://www.network54.com/Forum/559420/message/1207881816/last-1207952370/well+malone

http://www.network54.com/Forum/559420/message/1219518512/guys

http://www.network54.com/Forum/559420/message/1176920689/boffster

i was right.  mornac had no comment.  he and i did have a rather ridiculous exchange here not too long ago where he stated that an "embryo could not be created in a lab".  when countered, started some bullshit about how an "embryo could not be created without gods will"

when i pointed out that researchers in europe had created human-animal hybrid embryos in the lab and asked him if THAT was god's will.....crickets!  so you see what you're dealing with here.

peace

peace

[Mornac]

i was right.  mornac had no comment.  he and i did have a rather ridiculous exchange here not too long ago where he stated that an "embryo could not be created in a lab".

--Excuse me dagon, but I just put your quote into the search here and guess what I got?...Crickets! I don’t need you going johnhp on me so how ‘bout you show me where you made believe I said that.

when i pointed out that researchers in europe had created human-animal hybrid embryos in the lab and asked him if THAT was god's will.....crickets!  so you see what you're dealing with here.

--After you fail to produce the first thing you accused me of, you can show me where I didn’t answer this other question. I’m very protective of my reputation around here. I'd like to see where you think I compromised it.

[dagon]

--Excuse me dagon, but I just put your quote into the search here and guess what I got?...Crickets! I don’t need you going johnhp on me so how ‘bout you show me where you made believe I said that.
--After you fail to produce the first thing you accused me of, you can show me where I didn’t answer this other question. I’m very protective of my reputation around here. I'd like to see where you think I compromised it.

when are you going to learn mornac?  don't worry,  i'll find it for you.

peace

[dagon]

when are you going to learn mornac?  don't worry,  i'll find it for you.

peace

http://www.newsrake.org/index.php/topic,4532.45.html

start at reply #48 (or not,  the whole thread is an example of your evasion on the subject)

you'll never learn i guess;  money quote:

Quote from: Mornac on August 08, 2011, 11:11:29 PM
--Only God can create life. An embryo doesn’t become one unless or until it has life.

you're changing your story mornac.  do you mean that an embryo has to become a fetus in order to have life?  i can go with that but that's not what you've said.  you said an embryo is a life form and that embryos can't be created in a lab.  now that i've shown you that embryos are indeed created in labs you want to mess around.

how are you defining life today because i've got you on record for your definition from a couple of days ago.  by your previous criteria,  these human/animal hybrid embryos have "life";  meaning they are viable for implantation.  by law they must be destroyed within fourteen days however.

just admit you got caught in a conundrum and we'll call it a day because every stupid thing you've said on this thread has been read by everybody and you're not going to be able to walk it back although i know you will try.

Quote
--All embryos that make it to that stage - all the way down to hay seeds and lower - do so because God willed it.

what stage?  you mean viable for gestation?  because that's what you were peddling yesterday.  and in that case that must mean that god wills human/animal hybrids because guess what buddy;  they made it to that stage.

peace

peace

[Mornac]

http://www.newsrake.org/index.php/topic,4532.45.html

start at reply #48 (or not,  the whole thread is an example of your evasion on the subject)

you'll never learn i guess;  money quote:

Quote from: Mornac on August 08, 2011, 11:11:29 PM
--Only God can create life. An embryo doesn’t become one unless or until it has life.

you're changing your story mornac.  do you mean that an embryo has to become a fetus in order to have life?  i can go with that but that's not what you've said.  you said an embryo is a life form and that embryos can't be created in a lab.  now that i've shown you that embryos are indeed created in labs you want to mess around.

how are you defining life today because i've got you on record for your definition from a couple of days ago.  by your previous criteria,  these human/animal hybrid embryos have "life";  meaning they are viable for implantation.  by law they must be destroyed within fourteen days however.

just admit you got caught in a conundrum and we'll call it a day because every stupid thing you've said on this thread has been read by everybody and you're not going to be able to walk it back although i know you will try.

Quote
--All embryos that make it to that stage - all the way down to hay seeds and lower - do so because God willed it.

what stage?  you mean viable for gestation?  because that's what you were peddling yesterday.  and in that case that must mean that god wills human/animal hybrids because guess what buddy;  they made it to that stage.

peace

peace

--That's not the money quote. The money quote is where I say that an "embryo could not be created in a lab" and the blank space after you allegedly ask me "if THAT was god's will". I don't see anything that resembles either of those two lucutions anywhere. I'm just asking you to point them out ar admit they never existed. (And let's remember dagon... you're not very good at this sort of thing).

[dagon]

--That's not the money quote. The money quote is where I say that an "embryo could not be created in a lab" and the blank space after you allegedly ask me "if THAT was god's will". I don't see anything that resembles either of those two lucutions anywhere. I'm just asking you to point them out ar admit they never existed. (And let's remember dagon... you're not very good at this sort of thing

mornac, you're not good at anything except for playing word games to skirt around your nonsense but i'll play:

Quote from: dagon on August 07, 2011, 08:32:49 PM
is an embryo a human being?  or just cellular jelly with potential?  i'm curious as to your perspective.
--Life begins at conception, hence, an embryo is a human being.

----------------------------------------------

Quote from: Mornac on August 07, 2011, 08:50:41 PM
--Life begins at conception, hence, an embryo is a human being.

what about embryos created in a lab?  does man now possess the power to create human beings?  i thought that was a gift reserved for god.

peace

---------------------------------------------------
Quote from: dagon on August 07, 2011, 08:54:14 PM
what about embryos created in a lab?
--I’ve never heard of embryos being created in a lab. I have heard of human eggs being fertilized in a lab. Perhaps that is what you mean.

Quote
i thought that was a gift reserved for god.
--It is. Although I would more accurately phrase it as “a capability that God reserves for Himself”.

----------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Mornac on August 07, 2011, 10:02:05 PM
--I’ve never heard of embryos being created in a lab.



Ever hear of the Octomom?

In vitro fertilization?

Louise Brown?

------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Sassy on August 07, 2011, 10:21:56 PM

Ever hear of the Octomom?
--Yes.

Quote
In vitro fertilization?
--Yes.

Quote
Louise Brown?
--Yes.


Ever hear of embryos being created in a lab?

-------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Mornac on August 07, 2011, 10:34:31 PM

Ever hear of embryos being created in a lab?


Yes.

And you're playing word games again.

Create:   to produce or bring about by a course of action or behavior

Those embryos were created "by a course of action". 

I created a wonderful dinner tonight. Spent several hours on it.   I got the components from the store, which ultimately got those components from a farmer.  Using your logic, I guess I should find out who the farmer was and thank him for creating my dinner.

---dude,  even sassy is calling you out.


http://www.newsrake.org/index.php/topic,4532.15.html

for others who want to pile on mornac and his bullshit,  start at reply #22

sigh.

peace

[Mornac]

--I’ve never heard of embryos being created in a lab. I have heard of human eggs being fertilized in a lab. Perhaps that is what you mean.

--Yes, that was me trying to unravel your incoherent babble. A few posts later, I clarified myself to Sassy who was the first semi-rational persson to show up:

"I suppose you could say that they were “created in a lab” insofar as God infused life into them while they were situated within the confines of a laberatory."

http://www.newsrake.org/index.php/topic,4532.15.html

for others who want to pile on mornac and his bullshit,  start at reply #22

sigh.

peace

--Yes, by all means please do. In fact, start at the top of the thread and read it all the way through. You'll get a taste of the crap I put up with here on most days.

[dagon]

--Yes, that was me trying to unravel your incoherent babble. A few posts later, I clarified myself to Sassy who was the first semi-rational persson to show up:

"I suppose you could say that they were “created in a lab” insofar as God infused life into them while they were situated within the confines of a laberatory."
--Yes, by all means please do. In fact, start at the top of the thread and read it all the way through. You'll get a taste of the crap I put up with here on most days.

i thought you never said that embryos couldn't be created in a lab (which you did) and now you come back with the caveat, "well well but but god infused life to them while they were 'within' the confines of a lab."  pathetic.

what about animal/human hybrid embryos?  god infuse them with life too? (within the confines of a lab)

since life cannot occur without god's will and since embryos are "life" by your own admission, then god wants us to have human/animal hybrid life.  thanks,  that's all i ever wanted you to admit in the first place.

peace

[Mornac]

i thought you never said that embryos couldn't be created in a lab (which you did) and now you come back with the caveat, "well well but but god infused life to them while they were 'within' the confines of a lab."  pathetic.

--Your implication was that embryos could be created in a lab by humans. In fact you used words to that effect several times. My position has been and remains that embryos cannot be created by humans – in a lab or anywhere else.
 

what about animal/human hybrid embryos?  god infuse them with life too? (within the confines of a lab)

--God infused life into everything that ever had life.

since life cannot occur without god's will and since embryos are "life" by your own admission, then god wants us to have human/animal hybrid life.

--Non sequitur extraordinaire. God allows the free will that he endowed man with to  either cooperate with His own will or thwart it with the things that He created.

thanks,  that's all i ever wanted you to admit in the first place.

--Okay, but just to state it again so that you may take your glory lap: I admit that embryos can be created by God within the confines of a lab. You wrung it out of me dagon.

[johnhp]

SO, Mornac demonstrates once more that he does not understand the Church's doctrine.  i know, again?  See, when the Church discusses the creation of an embryo in vitro, it describes it this way: "They dissociate the sexual act from the procreative act.  The act which brings the child into existence is no longer an act by which two persons give themselves to one another, but one that "entrusts the life and identity of the embryo into the power of doctors and biologists and establishes the domination of technology over the origin and destiny of the human person." (CCC 2377)

For the Church, unlike Mornac, the Church sees in vitro fertilization as bringing the child into existence, as a procreative act without a sexual act.  This happens every time Mornac is goaded into giving a direct answer.