Do liberals believe a social contract exists where the wealthy owe society money

[dustup]

yada. yada. yada.

do dah.......do dah....oh do dah day!   

[vel]

Yes, but did you actually find any information from your research? 

Way, way too much to post. This is hardly something new.

If you're interested in the history of Western political philosophy you might start with Thomas Hobbes who may perhaps be most famous for his description of mankind without a political community (i.e. government):

"In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."

Compare that to third rate author and fourth rate philosopher Ayn Rand, whom Obsurder channels always but acknowledges never.

[vel]

do dah.......do dah....oh do dah day!   

This is a huge improvement over your usual posts.

Congratulations on the step up.

[dopesmoker]

They certaily DO believe that, but the rapid and cancerous expansion of liberal welfare stare programs has rendered even that source pitifully  inadequate. ALL of the wealth confiscated from ALL of the wealthy wouldn't pay government expenses for more than a few month at best.

[Undecided]

Way, way too much to post. This is hardly something new.

If you're interested in the history of Western political philosophy you might start with Thomas Hobbes who may perhaps be most famous for his description of mankind without a political community (i.e. government):

"In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."

Compare that to third rate author and fourth rate philosopher Ayn Rand, whom Obsurder channels always but acknowledges never.

But I don't think the question, except for anarchists, is whether or not we should have a government, but whether it should go beyond basic functions of government to also provide things such as housing and food for people at the expense of others.

[vel]

. . . the rapid and cancerous expansion of liberal welfare stare programs . . .

Translation: Putz hates the poor (despite the fact that he is a lot closer to the ranks of the poor than he is to anything else) and wants nothing more than to blame it on the have nots.

Tell me, Putz. Suppose you went to one of these Koch brothers meetings were they discuss things like how they're going buy all of these buses with the $100,000 paint jobs and astro turf a whole "movement" and pour money into states like Wisconsin where their dick head morans aggressively move to legislate the middle class out of existence. . .

Suppose you show up at one of these meetings where these people have billions of dollars. Suppose you knock on their door and say "I'm Putz, here I am!"

What happens to you next?

Why do you love these douchebags so much? Why do you think they give a flying fuck about a dittohead like you? Why do you think they need or are even worthy of your unthinking and undying support?

[vel]

But I don't think the question, except for anarchists, is whether or not we should have a government, but whether it should go beyond basic functions of government to also provide things such as housing and food for people at the expense of others.

That's their rhetoric, but what's the reality?

And why would you buy into the idea that the trillions of dollars spent on wars of aggression would be a "basic function?"

They hate government Undie, but their message isn't as unified and coherent as that. I watched the whole attack on the IRS in the 80s, while I was actually primarily engaged in representing people before the IRS. It's real easy to hate the IRS. It's a lot harder to set out what you need it for, and how you want it to conduct itself.

So basically their primary focus is hate, and they can shift that around at will. Hatred of government is definitely a big part of their equation. They hate minorities. They hate the have nots. They can even hate the rich, if that hate works for them.

[dopesmoker]

Translation: Putz hates the poor (despite the fact that he is a lot closer to the ranks of the poor than he is to anything else) and wants nothing more than to blame it on the have nots.

Tell me, Putz. Suppose you went to one of these Koch brothers meetings were they discuss things like how they're going buy all of these buses with the $100,000 paint jobs and astro turf a whole "movement" and pour money into states like Wisconsin where their dick head morans aggressively move to legislate the middle class out of existence. . .

Suppose you show up at one of these meetings where these people have billions of dollars. Suppose you knock on their door and say "I'm Putz, here I am!"

What happens to you next?

Why do you love these douchebags so much? Why do you think they give a flying fuck about a dittohead like you? Why do you think they need or are even worthy of your unthinking and undying support?

I'm talking reason and reality, you're taking emotion and fantasy. You know what emotion and fantasy in these matters get you?

Greece.

A place where you'd fit right in.

[vel]

And, anyway, mine was a response to the mocking from Badnews who did a short google because he had obviously never even heard of the term "social contract" before I brought it up. Others chimed in, calling it communist or whatever.

The point here was more to highlight the incredible ignorance of "conservatives", mocking the very foundation of Western political thought out of their sheer ignorance.

It really isn't about "the wealthy owing society money." Again, Undie, that's their stupid schtick.

It is about what happens if the wealthy have more and more of the wealth. At what point do they break the social contract? If the top 1% are billionaires and leave the rest of us to scrape by on, say, $5 a day then why the hell should we keep a system like that?

[vel]

I'm talking reason and reality, you're taking emotion and fantasy. You know what emotion and fantasy in these matters get you?

Greece.

A place where you'd fit right in.

Idiot.

Greece doesn't have it's own currency, putz. We are not Greece. We will never be Greece. We are still by far the largest economy on earth, ever, and you're incredibly stupid for even attempting this ploy.

You can continue to quake in fear over your own shadow, but don't expect me to join you in your little corner.

[Case_Closed]

Yes, but did you actually find any information from your research?

[dopesmoker]

Idiot.

Greece doesn't have it's own currency, putz. We are not Greece. We will never be Greece. We are still by far the largest economy on earth, ever, and you're incredibly stupid for even attempting this ploy.

You can continue to quake in fear over your own shadow, but don't expect me to join you in your little corner.

The US is at best 10 or 12 years away form Greece, and a completely undermined currency, if somebody doesn't do something to turn this boat around VERY soon. And a rapidly growing number of elderly baby boomers drawing more and more on social security and medical services throws a monkey wrench into such an 'optimistic' prediction as I've described, so maybe you have 5 or 6 years at best.

No, you don't fear this, do you vel: the money fairy will make everything all right in the end, and catch you as you dance off the ecoomic cliff, blissfully, with nary a thought in your hollow head....

[Case_Closed]

And, anyway, mine was a response to the mocking from Badnews who did a short google because he had obviously never even heard of the term "social contract" before I brought it up. Others chimed in, calling it communist or whatever.

Oh, I've heard of it before.  I've heard of it any times.  I've just never been too impressed with it anywhere on Earth where it's been employed and it was a successful venture except for those who are a drain on society.

Unless I fucked it, I ain't raising it.

The end

[vel]

Oh, I've heard of it before.  I've heard of it any times.  I've just never been too impressed with it anywhere on Earth where it's been employed and it was a successful venture except for those who are a drain on society.

So you admit that you hate Western political philosophy and you hate our nation.

I thought so.

[vel]

The US is at best 10 or 12 years away form Greece,

Bullshit. What you neglect to comprehend is that conditions will change. We will be in recovery and everything will change, as it has in the past and will do again in the future.

I know you find that prospect depressing.