House GOP reject payroll tax cut extension

[dustup]

....our Revolution was for the following reasons.........

 

The Declaration of Independence
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

    He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
    He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
    He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
    He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
    He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
    He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
    He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
    He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
    He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
    For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
    For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
    For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
    For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
    He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.   
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I don't see your claim mentioned anywhere???

What was our Revolution? Our Revolution was a revolution against inherited wealth and privilege. 

[vel]

So:  "Because?" 

 

I'm afraid that's not quite good enough.

Wait.

You're afraid that the fact there is no other answer isn't good enough to justify that answer?

No, not at all.  I, nor you, nor do "WE" enrich the already grotesque and obscenely rich.  THEY do.  What in the holy fuck do you, or I or "WE" give them that they haven't earned in one form or another?

Really?



You need to be Scrooged. Or better yet you need to put in some episode of The Twilight Zone where you get all of the wealth in the world but everyone else is gone.

What "Revolution?"  The Revolutionary War was against wealth and privilege?  What fucking "war" did you study in high school?

You forget that I have a lot more education than you do.

Why do you suppose our founding fathers fought against King George, the British aristocracy, and the British East India Company?

Would it be because they didn't need them?

I hear your opinion.  My opinion differs from yours.

Why? Why should 99% of the population continue to support something that isn't working reasonably well for them? Just because you think they should?

Why is that good enough?

Who is "arguing?"  I'm stating my opinions.

Unless you're God, or Mornac, there is nothing other than logic and reason. Your opinion without your argument for having that opinion is meaningless.

[vel]

I don't see your claim mentioned anywhere???

Of...course...you...don't....

You...would...have...to...actually....study...history...to...understand...who...and...what...the...founding...fathers...were....and...why...they...were...who...and...what...they...were....

[Case_Closed]

Your opinion without your argument for having that opinion is meaningless.

You mean "meaningless to you."

Also, lol @ your "democratsforprogress" smiley link.

[vel]

Here's the answer: 

-the GOP doesn't actually care about cutting taxes for the middle class
-the GOP is not interested in doing anything to help the economy; their goal is to hurt the economy so that they will have a better chance of regaining the Presidency.

True, but we're trashing "conservative" ideology at the moment--not the GOP per se.

There are a lot more than the top 1% who vote for Republicans. Badnews is expressing the tough shit for you ideology quite well. What he's not doing is a good job of justifying it, but then would you expect him to?

[vel]

You mean "meaningless to you."

Also, lol @ your "democratsforprogress" smiley link.

No. I mean meaningless and I explained why--at the root of our existence, whatever it may be, there is nothing other than logic and reason. If you can't justify your opinion with logic and reason it is meaningless in any objective sense.

I may be overstating this as there is a time and a place for subjectivity. We are subjective beings, after all.

[Case_Closed]

True, but we're trashing "conservative" ideology at the moment--not the GOP per se.

There are a lot more than the top 1% who vote for Republicans. Badnews is expressing the tough shit for you ideology quite well. What he's not doing is a good job of justifying it, but then would you expect him to?

What's annoying, vel, is that you have this unjustified "snooty" attitude when someone has a different worldview than you do.

That's just plain, fucking ignirint.  I think you know this.

[Case_Closed]

If you can't justify your opinion with logic and reason it is meaningless in any objective sense.

I VERY clearly stated my opinions, my logic and my reasons vs. yours, which was "Because."

[dustup]

Of...course...you...don't....

You...would...have...to...actually....study...history...to...understand...who...and...what...the...founding...fathers...were....and...why...they...were...who...and...what...they...were....

.......your assumption is invalid........I challenge you to show where one of the original founding fathers harbored your communist ideology of take from the rich and give to the poor.......

[vel]

What's annoying, vel, is that you have this unjustified "snooty" attitude when someone has a different worldview than you do.

That's just plain, fucking ignirint.  I think you know this.

I expect a reasonably objective argument and if you I find that you don't give one I will let you know. If that's "snooty" then so be it.

It's actually not that high of a standard, bad. It's not unreasonable, but it's in short supply from "conservatives" these days.

[Case_Closed]

I expect a reasonably objective argument and if you I find that you don't give one I will let you know. If that's "snooty" then so be it.

It's actually not that high of a standard, bad. It's not unreasonable, but it's in short supply from "conservatives" these days.

Well, I'm "above" being snooty when you give absurd answers such as "We are obligated to help others to achieve their potential because."

That's just fucking brain dead.  It would be kinda like making fun of a kid on a short bus...which, of course, is not beneath me.

[foodserver]

vel says,

Our collective purpose...

There is no such thing as a "collective purpose" or even a "collective."  Only a collection of individuals.  Even if there were a "collective" there is no man alive entitled to state what such a "collective purpose" would be.

I thank you for your candor though...

[foodserver]

Here's the answer:  

-the GOP doesn't actually care about cutting taxes for the middle class
-the GOP is not interested in doing anything to help the economy; their goal is to hurt the economy so that they will have a better chance of regaining the Presidency.

The boldfaced answer above would be my guess.  I'm grateful that Pepsi has discovered that lowering taxes helps the economy.

[dustup]

Of...course...you...don't....

You...would...have...to...actually....study...history...to...understand...who...and...what...the...founding...fathers...were....and...why...they...were...who...and...what...they...were....

.......your assumption is invalid........I challenge you to show where one of the original founding fathers harbored your communist ideology of take from the rich and give to the poor.......

.....I knew you couldn't........

[vel]

There is no such thing as a "collective purpose" or even a "collective."  Only a collection of individuals.  Even if there were a "collective" there is no man alive entitled to state what such a "collective purpose" would be.

Our whole jurisprudence is based on our collective will and our social contract. And then there's a whole debate in contemporary physics that we owe our whole existence to a collective consciousness.

Do you enjoy being so ignorant, or what?