Slán libh!

[Mornac]

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Dublin Archbishop tells lapsed Catholics to leave the Catholic Church
Not enough to just attend weddings, baptisms say Church leaders

By DARA KELLY
December 11, 2011

The Archbishop of Dublin is telling lapsed Catholics to leave the Church, reports the Irish Independent.

As rising numbers of Catholics only show up at church for sacraments like baptism and marriage, the Archbishop Diarmuid Martin is urging non-believers to have the maturity to walk away.

In the new documentary 'Would You Believe,' priests reveal they will expect a firmer commitment from church-goers.

"It requires maturity on those people who want their children to become members of the Church community and maturity on those people who say 'I don't believe in God and I really shouldn't be hanging on to the vestiges of faith when I don't really believe in it,'" said Archbishop Martin.

The Church believes that a la carte Catholics have picked and chosen which Catholic rituals to get involved with but Martin says the Church will expect a far fuller commitment in the future.

The documentary shows how celebratory occasion such as weddings and baptisms attract huge numbers while regular mass attendance has dropped.

Fr Michael Drumm, from the Catholic Schools Parnership, also said the Church would be getting stricter with requirements for parents who want their children baptized Catholic.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Dublin-Archbishop-tells-lapsed-Catholics-to-leave-the-Catholic-Church-135400893.html

[Case_Closed]

Speaking of Ireland...Sinead O'Connor got married again to some guy she met on the internet.

Sinéad O'Connor - Nothing Compares 2U	Small | Large

[Mornac]

Which one's Sinead?

[Case_Closed]

The one with the short hair.

[Mornac]

Ya mean the guy in drag with all the tattoos? I didn't even know they had same sex marriage in Eire.

[ivanm]

That  '57 Caddy in the background is a lot more interesting.   

[ivanm]

Dublin Archbishop tells lapsed Catholics to leave the Catholic Church
Not enough to just attend weddings, baptisms say Church leaders

By DARA KELLY
December 11, 2011

The Archbishop of Dublin is telling lapsed Catholics to leave the Church, reports the Irish Independent.

As rising numbers of Catholics only show up at church for sacraments like baptism and marriage, the Archbishop Diarmuid Martin is urging non-believers to have the maturity to walk away.

In the new documentary 'Would You Believe,' priests reveal they will expect a firmer commitment from church-goers.

"It requires maturity on those people who want their children to become members of the Church community and maturity on those people who say 'I don't believe in God and I really shouldn't be hanging on to the vestiges of faith when I don't really believe in it,'" said Archbishop Martin.

The Church believes that a la carte Catholics have picked and chosen which Catholic rituals to get involved with but Martin says the Church will expect a far fuller commitment in the future.

The documentary shows how celebratory occasion such as weddings and baptisms attract huge numbers while regular mass attendance has dropped.

Fr Michael Drumm, from the Catholic Schools Parnership, also said the Church would be getting stricter with requirements for parents who want their children baptized Catholic.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Dublin-Archbishop-tells-lapsed-Catholics-to-leave-the-Catholic-Church-135400893.html

I think the Protestant churches have the same problem.  This may be cold of me, but I think that some people maintain their church membership so  they can have a church home for their funeral.  One must make allowances for those who are not able to get to the church, but how about the ones that can?

Churches also offer some social life in the small towns, something they might not have if it weren't for the churches.  So people go to these events but are not good about going to Sunday worship services.  Oh well, if they are at a church social then they aren't doing something else that may not be so proper, so all is not lost with the part time church goer.

I do see your point Mornac, because it takes a lot of money to operate a church building, to pay the help, and to provide things for services and socials as well. The church I had gone to was very dependent on a few wealthy contributors to keep its doors open and to keep on providing the service level it did. I used to tithe, and it was not a burden to us.  The small amount we gave each Sunday was a real bargain in terms of what we received in return, and it gave me a warm feeling to think I was somehow helping people who were less fortunate than I was.
 
 And I think the bible has something about the importance of attending services on a regular basis.  In the modern industrialized world there are practical reasons why people don't attend services every day but thank Goodness the Lord's day has been set aside for that purpose.  Perhaps you could provide us some background on how and why Sunday became the day of worship?
 
In true Methodist style it tried to attract people by doing nice things for them such as suppers and prayer groups with goodies like coffee and cake. The way to a person's heart is thru the stomach they say, and it is a nice way to reach out to the community in hopes that some may come back on Sunday.

In Methodist style, I think that leading by example is a good supplement to the doctrinaire approach of spreadig the Word, because the service things that
Christ advocated were also a part of his message. Perhaps a good defense towards resisting the pressures of Islamic extremistsv trying to wreck our way of life as well as our religious beliefs is to be a faithful Christrian and to be more active in the church.

As many of you may remember,  I am not much of a believer after being insulted by the wife of a new pastor that came to town, bu  I still see value in the practice of religion an in believing in Christ and God the Father. It is our moral rudder so to speak, and it is apparent to me that too many Americans are simply lost in the sea of life.

Thanks for the insightful post Mornac.

[johnhp]

Lapsed Catholics.....i seem to recall you mentioning one of those in your family.  Are you encouraging her to leave the church?

[notoc]

 In April of this year, the Catholic Church modified the Code of Canon Law to remove all references to the act of formal defection, the process used by those who wish to formally renounce their membership of the Church.

Since then, the Catholic Church in Ireland has been reflecting on the implications of this change for those who wish to leave the Catholic Church. Despite our requests for clarification, the Church have yet to reach a firm position on how or whether they will continue to accept requests for the annotation of the baptismal register.

In recent weeks we have been contacted by an increasing number of people whose defections have not been processed, due to the limbo created by this canon law amendment.

Because of this uncertainty, we have taken the decision to suspend the creation of declarations of defection via CountMeOut.ie from today (12th October 2010).

In response to this, the Church in Ireland released the following statement to RTE News:

   The Holy See confirmed at the end of August that it was introducing changes to Canon Law and as a result it will no longer be possible to formally defect from the Catholic Church.

http://www.countmeout.ie/suspension/

[Mornac]

Thanks notoc. Looks like the Novus ordo have dug yet another hole that they can't climb out of.

[notoc]

The hole that can't be climbed out of is a money pit.

http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?org_id=1551&kb_header_id=33981

[ivanm]

The link that notoc has provided also points to an article about the situation in England with the state church, which is  the Anglican Church.  As a side note, I think the Episcopalian Church in America may be an offshoot of the Anglican Church.

Did anyone notice how low the Sunday worhsip tally was relative to stated membership?  Some 25 million members in England versus an attendance rate of only 1.1 million or so.  Wow.
 
You have to click on a link in the first article to get to the article about Britian.

Perhaps this state tax that is imposed by various Euro countries alienates people, and maybe that has a bearing on notoc's disdain of religion?  I don't mean to start a fuss over this but I can see where it might brown people off to have to pay a tax when they don't want to go to church or practice religion. They don't know what they are missing.

[Mornac]

The hole that can't be climbed out of is a money pit.

http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?org_id=1551&kb_header_id=33981

--Such are the problems one encounters when one mingles church and state. Look at the can of worms the King of England opened when he decided to found his own church and place himself at the head of it thereby creating the first Protestant Monarchy (which persists to this day). He set himself up with a financial bonanza by confiscating property from the Catholic Church, claiming Cathedrals for his own Protestant heresy, burning down our convents and monasteries to make way for farmland, killing recalcitrants, and forcing the rest of us to worship in his heretical “churches” which included financial obligations which were paid under duress. Those wishing to continue participating in Christ’s Church had to do so in a clandestine manner for fear of their lives. In subjugated Ireland, that meant meeting in woods or secluded fields at a moment’s notice where an undercover priest would offer Mass on a rock for his people. If they were lucky, they wouldn’t be found out and no one’s head would be displayed on a pike in the village square. If the King’s men found them out the result would be Talibanesque. Unfortunately, the Protestant Monarchy lives on in the UK and institutionalized bigotry against Catholics remains unchallenged.

[ivanm]

--Such are the problems one encounters when one mingles church and state. Look at the can of worms the King of England opened when he decided to found his own church and place himself at the head of it thereby creating the first Protestant Monarchy (which persists to this day). He set himself up with a financial bonanza by confiscating property from the Catholic Church, claiming Cathedrals for his own Protestant heresy, burning down our convents and monasteries to make way for farmland, killing recalcitrants, and forcing the rest of us to worship in his heretical “churches” which included financial obligations which were paid under duress. Those wishing to continue participating in Christ’s Church had to do so in a clandestine manner for fear of their lives. In subjugated Ireland, that meant meeting in woods or secluded fields at a moment’s notice where an undercover priest would offer Mass on a rock for his people. If they were lucky, they wouldn’t be found out and no one’s head would be displayed on a pike in the village square. If the King’s men found them out the result would be Talibanesque. Unfortunately, the Protestant Monarchy lives on in the UK and institutionalized bigotry against Catholics remains unchallenged.

Isn't it amazing, people turn a blind eye to the sickness of Islamic extremism, we waste thousands of good lives challenging this menace, and at the same time fools persecute well meaning Christians who simply want to live in peace and practice their faith.  My experience with the Catholics I know has been very good, and at least they don't get into my face with their religous views.

Keep up the good fight Mornac.

[Case_Closed]

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