What does the bible say about sexual perversion?

[ivanm]

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http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=246
 
WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT...
 
 HOMOSEXUALITY?
 
We realize that this subject can be a very difficult one to address. Furthermore, as hate crimes specifically committed against homosexuals occur, many feel that this issue shouldn't be addressed at all for fear of only adding to the hostile environment that many homosexuals face. Despite the cultural climate in which we live, this issue must be addressed according to the Word of God. God's laws are always for our good, although man may see them as restricting. In the end, only obedience to the Word of God can bring true freedom. We address this issue out of God's love for the homosexual to bless and help him.
 
Much of our society has embraced many perverted sexual practices that are considered in the Bible as abominations to God. Homosexuality is among the list of deviate or abnormal sexual practices however, there are many other practices that can be included as well. Pornography, pedophilia, prostitution, bestiality, oral sex, phone sex and computer virtual reality sex, just to name a few of them.
 
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
 
Although the Bible doesn't detail each and every one of these sinful acts, it does clearly speak out about many of them. Any deviation from God's original plan for sex between a married man and woman is still a sin in God's eyes. The main reason we call these things perverted is because they are unnatural and scripture clearly tells us those who do such things are committing abominations. Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."
 
Homosexuality is also referred to as the sin of sodomy. This reference comes from an account in the Bible of two exceedingly wicked cities, Sodom and Gomorrah, which the Lord destroyed. Sodom was known for its rampant homosexuality and unrestrained sexual lust, as well as other sins such as arrogance, haughtiness, and disregard for the poor. When the Lord sent angels to warn Lot who lived in the city that it was about to be destroyed, the men of the city actually wanted to rape the angels! Genesis 13:13: "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly."
 
In the Old Testament the penalty for this sin was severe. Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Today the penalty of death comes in the form of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. It also brings death to  the soul and spirit of man because the life of God is pushed out by indulging in something that is an abomination to God.  God wants to deliver all who are trapped in this unholy practice and He will if anyone calls out to Him with a sincere heart.
 
We certainly acknowledge that AIDS has broken out of the homosexual community, and now, many innocent people are suffering with this disease through no fault of their own.  However, the intent of the above statement is not directed to those who have innocently contracted this disease, but rather to the sinners who are spreading it.  A comparison could be made to those who smoke. Smokers are opening themselves up for lung cancer; however, the people who are subjected to breathing the smoke second-hand are also subject to this disease.  The person who willfully smokes is guilty of destroying their own bodies, but should those who are forced to live in the environment of the smoke, get lung cancer, they are not guilty of this sin.  When we teach that smoking causes lung cancer, we are not judging or condemning those who innocently get lung cancer from breathing second-hand smoke. It is simply a true fact that smoking can cause lung cancer.





The same is true of AIDS.  A homosexual life style increases the risk of that person contracting AIDS. There is no condemnation or judgment against those who innocently contract this disease through no fault of their own (for instance, through blood transfusions.)  However, since AIDS is most prevalent in the homosexual community, we need to warn people of the dangers of  homosexuality, so that AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases are not spread to the rest of society, as now, many heterosexuals have contracted these diseases too, through unfaithful partners.

 Romans 1:24-32:
 

 
 
 
 
 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 

These scriptures clearly state that these vile affections of men lusting for other men (gay men) or women lusting for other women (lesbians) are not the natural affections God created men and women to have for one another. Let me say here that God loves all homosexuals! However, He hates the deeds of homosexuality because they are sinful. God did not create any human being as a homosexual. They are not born that way, just as murderers are not born that way. However, these spirits can be transmitted to children, especially if someone who had this demonic spirit seduced or raped a child--or even if they were close to gay people. These demons can also be imparted to others through unholy sexual acts.
 
People become homosexuals because they yield to abnormal acts or lust. It is through some source that they have received a demonic spirit that drives them to their lust. Viewing evil videos or pornographic books is a way of opening the door for Satan to give one an evil, perverse spirit. Though people are not born as homosexuals, the Bible does say all human beings are born with a sin nature. If we yield to the evils of our flesh it will lead to our destruction not only in this life, but in the life to come. However, through faith in Jesus Christ and His death on the cross we can break the hold that sin has upon us. We do not have to yield to the old fleshy nature but we can now overcome evil temptations and live our lives controlled by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
 
Sex is God's idea and its purpose is not only for procreation, but also for recreation and the development of a deep relationship between man and woman. Nothing is wrong or dirty about sex when it is engaged in the bonds of marriage as the Lord commanded in the Bible. However, when perversions are committed inside the marriage relationship, this can be sinful also. God made man and woman and brought them together "face to face." Oral sex is of homosexual origin that replaces the normal "face to face" relationship God intended in a marriage. The Bible describes the sex act in Song of Solomon Chapter 4. In this chapter it speaks of this "face to face" relationship by describing looking into his lover's eyes and kissing his lover's lips and fondling his lover's breasts. Oral sex is not normal or natural as it is an unclean act.
 
No one has to live in bondage with an abnormal life of homosexuality nor any other abnormal behavior. No one has to be controlled by pornography. No one has to have evil thoughts plague their minds. There is a way out through what Jesus has done for us. He loves sinners and wants to free us from any evil practices. He will empower those who cry out for deliverance to get free and stay free. Here are the steps you must take to get free:
 

(1.) Make a total commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ. Be willing to turn your life completely over to the will of God and yield to His plan for your life. This means you must be willing to do anything, go anywhere and give up any thing as He leads. Remember, God will never lead you to do anything that is not in agreement with the Bible. You can trust God. He created you and has a better plan for your life.
 
(2.) Your must pray and read your Bible daily. You must study and apply the Word of God to overcome Satan's attacks. The way that you resist the attacks of the devil is by quoting the Word of God to him. When the devil came to tempt Jesus, He simply quoted the Word to him. Good praise tapes will also be of a great help when you are tempted. Put one on and start singing along with it.

(3.) You must pray for and seek out a strong Bible believing group of Holy Spirit filled people. You will need their help and fellowship. As you humble yourself and seek help, the Lord will deliver you. Ask God to lead you to someone that can pray the prayer of deliverance for you, as you probably will need to be set free from a demon. You should also seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit as you will need His power to get free and to remain free.

(4.) You must cut off all sources and relationships that would lead you back into sin. The Bible tells us to flee fornication (sexual sins). You must get out of any corrupt entanglements, or areas that you know will be a temptation to you. If you have been hooked on internet pornography subscribe to an Internet Service Provider that will filter out the pornography for you. Destroy all evil books and videos.

(5.) Should you slip or fall back occasionally, repent and get right back up and go on with God. Do not allow the devil to condemn you once you have repented. Put your sin under the blood of Jesus. He will strengthen you and you will win this battle because of the Lord's promise to you. Remember, He loves you and is there to help you. Run to Him when you get in trouble, never run from Him. He will not ever give up on you! We too, will be standing with you for your total healing and deliverance. Philippians 1:6: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ."

(6.) You must forgive everyone that has ever hurt you. You can only do this through the power of God. You must by a simple act of your will voice the forgiveness and then the Lord will give you the feeling of forgiveness. This may be a while in coming but just keep forgiving when you think of any wrong that has been done to you. The Lord will give you His love for those people who have wronged you.

[Case_Closed]

The Bible says:  "No."

Ever.

Or it's your ass.

[ivanm]

The Bible says:  "No."

Ever.

Or it's your ass.

The text that pertains to AIDS and its consequences is right on the money.  That is the just reward  for perverts, but what about the innocents who also  
face the same fate?  I have a humane way to control the spread of this killer, but it would not be politically correct to mention it on this forum.  

Thank you for your considerate reply CC. We need more people like you rather than so many thin skinned  cowards who are afraid to speak up.

[Case_Closed]

We need more people like you rather than so many thin skinned bigots.

Well, I don't think they are thin-skinned.  I think it's more accurate to say that they are on a quest to purge the board of those who don't toe the line to their closed-minded thinking.  It has always been this way and I presume it will always continue to be this way.  They subscribe to the "If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em" philosophy.

Sometimes moderators and admins fall for it, and other times they do not.

[ivanm]

Well, I don't think they are thin-skinned.  I think it's more accurate to say that they are on a quest to purge the board of those who don't toe the line to their closed-minded thinking.  It has always been this way and I presume it will always continue to be this way.  They subscribe to the "If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em" philosophy.

Sometimes moderators and admins fall for it, and other times they do not.

Agreed. Can't beat City Hall they say.   At least you and I can hold our heads high and still have our self respect.  The little town where I live is very conservative, and my kids are that way for the most part.  I think I got one who hasn't woke up yet and may never will, given the PC role he has to play.

I haven't found another forum yet that is as much fun as this one but I do participate in two where you can express you opinion without being put down by a forum freak.
As you say, that is the way of the liberals, and I hope that in 2013 their gravy train comes to a screeching halt.  

[Case_Closed]

Agreed. Can't beat City Hall they say.   At least you and I can hold our heads high and still have our self respect.  The little town where I live is very conservative, and my kids are that way for the most part.  I think I got one who hasn't woke up yet and may never will, given the PC role he has to play.

I haven't found another forum yet that is as much fun as this one but I do participate in two where you can express you opinion without being put down by a forum freak.
As you say, that is the way of the liberals, and I hope that in 2013 their gravy train comes to a screeching halt.  

The most amusing part of it all?  If they win by getting their "enemies" deleted?  They lose, because all they are left with are a bunch of Head Nodding Yes Men, and you know as well as anyone, that would drive them out of their minds.

A Liberal is at his most unhappy moment when there is nothing to argue about and get angry over.

Nothing you can do about it except troll them back more than they are trolling you.  You first have to ask yourself:  "Do I give a shit what this turd thinks about me (or anything else on the planet)?"

Of course the answer is:  "No."

[ivanm]

I think this is appropriate as it relates to the theme of the opening post.  The article is offered by a professional in the fields of HIV/AIDS treatment and is included here for its educational value. In other words, lets set the politics aside and take a hard look at the toll this devastating disease is taking on our population.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=152140



Despite Advances, HIV/AIDS Still Takes Heavy Emotional Toll
 
By Dennis Thompson
HealthDay Reporter
 
 Most Americans With HIV Don't Have Infection Under Control
 
THURSDAY, Dec. 1 (HealthDay News) -- For many it's a good news/bad news scenario.

People with HIV/AIDS are living longer and healthier lives than ever before, but they still have a chronic disease that's potentially fatal and carries a heavy stigma, said Jorie Barna, a care coordinator for the AIDS/HIV Services Group in Charlottesville, Va.

Barna, who lived in San Francisco during the 1980s and 1990s, said she saw the debilitating and deadly toll that HIV/AIDS took before the development of lifesaving antiretroviral medications.

"Living with HIV today is very manageable," said Barna, 43, who has a case load of 50 patients whom she monitors. "If somebody were to take care of themselves, eat well, keep their stress levels down, exercise regularly and take their medications, they could live long lives. I think in another decade, living with HIV will be like diabetes. You just have to take care of yourself."

Despite the medical advances, however, the mental toll that HIV/AIDS takes on people remains strong, Barna said, particularly in less-urban parts of the country.

"Stigma is still huge, huge here," she said. "A lot of people still associate HIV and AIDS as being a gay disease, which is not true at all. A lot of my straight men struggle because they don't want to be seen as homosexual."

Also, many of the people Barna helps were already at risk for infection because of other conditions.

"The issues that originally put them at risk for HIV infection have not been addressed," she said. "They're still struggling with mental health or substance abuse. They may be taking their medications and their HIV is stable, but they have other problems."

In addition, HIV/AIDS can have a severe financial impact on people, particularly if their infection was detected late and they've been incapacitated by it.

"People go on disability because they are too ill to work, but there's less and less out there for them," Barna said. "The government funding is drying up. It's hard to find affordable housing. There's no such thing as public transit here in Charlottesville. It's financially a huge challenge."

People with HIV/AIDS also come under additional stress from alienation and lack of affection, she said.

"It's hard on their families. It's hard on them," Barna said. "A lot of people feel they can't share their status with anyone. I have a lot of people who avoid physical intimacy, period, because they are afraid of disclosure. They are isolated and alone."

All of this adds to the tough medical struggle that HIV/AIDS patients face in dealing with their chronic illness.

"They might be physically stable enough, but they are still struggling emotionally, financially and psychologically," she said.


Copyright © 2011 HealthDay. All rights reserved.

SOURCE: Jorie Barna, care coordinator, AIDS/HIV Services Group, Charlottesville, Va.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This situation is spinning out of control.  A silent killer just as brutal as cancer is.
 

[ivanm]

The most amusing part of it all?  If they win by getting their "enemies" deleted?  They lose, because all they are left with are a bunch of Head Nodding Yes Men, and you know as well as anyone, that would drive them out of their minds.

A Liberal is at his most unhappy moment when there is nothing to argue about and get angry over.

Nothing you can do about it except troll them back more than they are trolling you.  You first have to ask yourself:  "Do I give a shit what this turd thinks about me (or anything else on the planet)?"

Of course the answer is:  "No."

It reminds me of the circle jerk where monkeys get in a circle, wank each other, and nod in unison.  Real enlightened and upstanding people.

[johnhp]

The text that pertains to AIDS and its consequences is right on the money.  That is the just reward  for perverts, but what about the innocents who also  
face the same fate?  I have a humane way to control the spread of this killer, but it would not be politically correct to mention it on this forum.  

Thank you for your considerate reply CC. We need more people like you rather than so many thin skinned  cowards who are afraid to speak up.

So, people with Aids deserve to die?

[ivanm]

Well, I don't think they are thin-skinned.  I think it's more accurate to say that they are on a quest to purge the board of those who don't toe the line to their closed-minded thinking.  It has always been this way and I presume it will always continue to be this way.  They subscribe to the "If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em" philosophy.

Sometimes moderators and admins fall for it, and other times they do not.

It is a matter of preserving the mob because without a mob to hide behind a liberal is impotent. No one should speak outside the box, outside the party line, for fear they would be ostracized for having convictions of their own.   The sad fact of the matter is that few of them have any convictions that are based on reason and a sense of fairness and responsbility. Fairness to those people is getting the other guy before he gets you, and their maxim seems to be the survival of the fittest in spite of their dependence on the mob for a backbone.

Their ideology is corrupt and worthless and yet they cling to it like flies on dung. Given their mental state, what more do they have going for themselves?
 
These people are living in denial and can't see the consequences of playing fast and loose with moral values that have served us well for thousands of years.  The S&P downgrade of our national debt should have been a clue to them as to what happens when you play fast and loose with finances, but once again, their way is to shove the blame and the burden off on responsible people.  After all, who is left to straighten the mess out, certainly not those myopic fools.

The Roman Empire, the greatest power in its time and a very progressive and successful people, ate themselves up with sexual perversion and with over extending their budgets. Look at the so called French Revolution, or I should say revolutions as there were more than one. A once proud and very successful France went down the tubes, morally, politically, and economically. 

In both cases there were wrongs to be righted, but mob rule didn't hack it. It takes people with a sense of direction, a broad sense of perspective to put things into balance, and not some knee jerk crowd who is hell bent on instant gratification and to hell with the existing norms of behavior, just make some up to suit their agenda.  Some can learn from history, and can profit from the mistakes of others, but then again there are some who have to reinvent the wheel.  I guess it does something for their egos.

If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

[Case_Closed]

It's all about "power," Ivan.

Power and control.  To FORCE others to do as they say...albeit not as they do.

[ivanm]

http://www.rome.info/history/empire/fall/
The following article provides insight to what happens when a great country falls on its sword.  We are such a great country and the decay points to the same fate for us.  
With a little extrapolation one can associate many of our current national problems with those suffered by the Roman people.

So when people wonder why I am so adamant about law and order and personal responsibility they need to read this article and see for themselves what can happen to a country who throws caution and morals to the wind.   I think the key thing in the demise of this great empire was the corruption of the leaders in government. 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fall of the Roman Empire
 
There were several reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire. Each one intertweaved with the other. Many even blame the initiation of Christianity for the decline. Christianity made many Roman citizens into pacifists, making it more difficult to defend against the barbarian attackers. Also money used to build churches could have been used to maintain the Roman empire.
 
Decline in Morals and Values
Even during PaxRomana (A long period from Augstus to Marcus Aurelius when the Roman empire was stable and relativly peaceful) there were 32,000 prostitutes in Rome. Emperors like Caligula and Nero became infamous for wasting money on lavish parties where guests drank and ate until they became sick. The most popular amusement was watching the gladiatorial combats in the Colosseum.

Public Health
There were many public health and environmental problems. Many of the wealthy had water brought to their homes through lead pipes. Previously the aqueducts had even purified the water but at the end lead pipes were thought to be preferable. The wealthy death rate was very high. The continuous interaction of people at the Colosseum, the blood and death probable spread disease. Those who lived on the streets in continuous contact allowed for an uninterrupted strain of disease much like the homeless in the poorer run shelters of today. Alcohol use increased as well adding to the incompetency of the general public.

Political Corruption
One of the most difficult problems was choosing a new emperor. Unlike Greece where transition may not have been smooth but was at least consistent, the Romans never created an effective system to determine how new emperors would be selected. The choice was always open to debate between the old emperor, the Senate, the Praetorian Guard (the emperor's's private army), and the army. Gradually, the Praetorian Guard gained complete authority to choose the new emperor, who rewarded the guard who then became more influential, perpetuating the cycle. Then in 186 A. D. the army strangled the new emperor, the practice began of selling the throne to the highest bidder. During the next 100 years, Rome had 37 different emperors - 25 of whom were removed from office by assassination. This contributed to the overall weaknesses, decline and fall of the empire.

Unemployment
During the latter years of the empire farming was done on large estates called latifundia that were owned by wealthy men who used slave labor. A farmer who had to pay workmen could not produce goods as cheaply. Many farmers could not compete with these low prices and lost or sold their farms. This not only undermined the citizen farmer who passed his values to his family, but also filled the cities with unemployed people. At one time, the emperor was importing grain to feed more than 100,000 people in Rome alone. These people were not only a burden but also had little to do but cause trouble and contribute to an ever increasing crime rate.

Inflation
The roman economy suffered from inflation (an increase in prices) beginning after the reign of Marcus Aurelius. Once the Romans stopped conquering new lands, the flow of gold into the Roman economy decreased. Yet much gold was being spent by the romans to pay for luxury items. This meant that there was less gold to use in coins. As the amount of gold used in coins decreased, the coins became less valuable. To make up for this loss in value, merchants raised the prices on the goods they sold. Many people stopped using coins and began to barter to get what they needed. Eventually, salaries had to be paid in food and clothing, and taxes were collected in fruits and vegetables.

Urban decay
Wealthy Romans lived in a domus, or house, with marble walls, floors with intricate colored tiles, and windows made of small panes of glass. Most Romans, however, were not rich, They lived in small smelly rooms in apartment houses with six or more stories called islands. Each island covered an entire block. At one time there were 44,000 apartment houses within the city walls of Rome. First-floor apartments were not occupied by the poor since these living quarters rented for about $00 a year. The more shaky wooden stairs a family had to climb, the cheaper the rent became. The upper apartments that the poor rented for $40 a year were hot, dirty, crowed, and dangerous. Anyone who could not pay the rent was forced to move out and live on the crime-infested streets. Because of this cities began to decay.

Inferior Technology
Another factor that had contributed to decline and fall of the Roman empire was that during the last 400 years of the empire, the scientific achievements of the Romans were limited almost entirely to engineering and the organization of public services. They built marvelous roads, bridges, and aqueducts. They established the first system of medicine for the benefit of the poor. But since the Romans relied so much on human and animal labor, they failed to invent many new machines or find new technology to produce goods more efficiently. They could not provide enough goods for their growing population. They were no longer conquering other civilizations and adapting their technology, they were actually losing territory they could not longer maintain with their legions.

Military Spending
Maintaining an army to defend the border of the Empire from barbarian attacks was a constant drain on the government. Military spending left few resources for other vital activities, such as providing public housing and maintaining quality roads and aqueducts. Frustrated Romans lost their desire to defend the Empire. The empire had to begin hiring soldiers recruited from the unemployed city mobs or worse from foreign counties. Such an army was not only unreliable, but very expensive. The emperors were forced to raise taxes frequently which in turn led again to increased inflation.

THE FINAL BLOWS
For years, the well-disciplined Roman army held the barbarians of Germany back. Then in the third century A. D. the Roman soldiers were pulled back from the Rhine-Danube frontier to fight civil war in Italy. This left the Roman border open to attack. Gradually Germanic hunters and herders from the north began to overtake Roman lands in Greece and Gaul (later France). Then in 476 A. D. the Germanic general Odacer or Odovacar overthrew the last of the Roman Emperors, Augustulus Romulus. From then on the western part of the Empire was ruled by Germanic chieftain. Roads and bridges were left in disrepair and fields left untilled. Pirates and bandits made travel unsafe. Cities could not be maintained without goods from the farms, trade and business began to disappear. And Rome was no more in the West. The total fall of the Roman empire.

 

[ivanm]

It's all about "power," Ivan.

Power and control.  To FORCE others to do as they say...albeit not as they do.

When power becomes the end objective rather than a means to some end result then you have problems.  I keep saying this and it keeps falling on deaf ears.

But the Islamic jihadists just love to see the American people so factionalized and divided that no meaningful legislation can be passed by the Congress.
Why should they have to fight us, all they have to do is to wait while we fight ourselves and destroy one of the best ways of life this world has ever seen.

I fault the two party system for this lack of constructive legislation more than anything else.  I think a small cadre of swing voters in each house of Congress
could serve to keep things moving. So what if they are bought, everyone else is. I also favor term limitations for the Congress and for all civil servants.

High level bureaucrats slip around and make policy while the man who is supposed to be in charge is out golfing or watching basset ball games.

[Case_Closed]

When power becomes the end objective rather than a means to some end result then you have problems.  I keep saying this and it keeps falling on deaf ears.

Maybe it's not "deaf ears" that you are experiencing so much as "There is no logical argument to refute your observation that would make sense and that it would be fruitless in attempting to mitigate it?"

[Undecided]

Ivan and CC need to go get a room.