A new day: Novus ordo bishops admit to being hoodwinked by liberal politicians

[Mornac]

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These fellas are learning the hard way and unfortunately we all have to pay the price for their naiveté, but better late than never:


‘We were deceived’ on New York gay ‘marriage’ vote: Archbishop Dolan

John Jalsevac

NEW YORK, NY, November 25, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) - In the aftermath of the legalization of gay “marriage” in New York state, some commentators had wondered why, despite their leadership role in the fight against the law, the state’s Catholic bishops’ efforts had ultimately seemed so strangely half-hearted, given the high stakes.

One of these was gay activist Terence Weldon. Writing after the vote at the blog “Queering the Church,” he said: “the really interesting thing about the Catholic bishops and NY gay marriage is not how vigorously they fought against it (as the headlines would have it), but how lukewarm this opposition was overall, and how calm they have been in response.”

Weldon pointed out that of 21 bishops in the state, he could only think of two who had taken any public steps to fight the gay “marriage” law - Archbishop Timothy Dolan and Bishop Nicholas DiMazio. Overall he described the response of the bishops to the passage of the law as “muted and moderate.”

It is a puzzling question, but in a mostly overlooked interview with EWTN’s Raymond Arroyo in August, Archbishop Dolan gave some insight into what happened behind the scenes, suggesting that the bishops had, in fact, deliberately avoided “pulling out the stops.”

Why? Because, Dolan says, he and his fellow bishops had been assured by “political allies” that the bill didn’t have any legs, and that there was no need to expend resources fighting it.

In retrospect, said Dolan, he and the other bishops are wondering if they weren’t being deceived.

“We fell for the assurances of people that we thought were political allies that this wasn’t going to go anywhere,” Dolan told Arroyo, pointing out that there was “some credibility” to this claim, since past efforts to legalize gay “marriage” in New York had failed.

“So we had political allies who said, ‘Bishops, keep your ammo dry, you don’t have to pull out all the stops, speak on principle, speak up against this bill, but don’t really worry because it’s not going to go anywhere.’

“We were told that Raymond, up to six days before the bill passed.”

In reference to the “allies” who misled the bishops, Dolan mused: “Were they caught by surprise? Did they believe the words they were telling us? Or were they being a little bit edgy in saying let’s keep the bishops quiet by assuring them that this isn’t going anywhere? That I don’t know.”

Dolan referred to the passage of the bill as, “Very sad. Very sobering,” and lambasted the manner in which the legislation was passed, describing it as “a very well-oiled, high financed program of manipulation.”

“Not only are we…upset with the bill, we’re upset with the way it was done,” he said. “This was hardly democracy in action.”

“If you were so convinced that this was the will of the people, why didn’t we have a referendum, and why did you literally have to lock the doors and not face any public, because you knew it really wasn’t going to go over, right?”

Dolan’s latter statement appeared to be a reference to the fact that the public had reportedly been barred from committee meetings on the bill.

Dolan also said that the bishops were deceived on the question of the protection of religious freedom in the final bill.

“We said the next thing will be we’ll be sued if we don’t do marriage, we’re going to be harassed if we don’t do receptions, we’re going to be penalized if we don’t allow adoption, we’re going to be booed if we don’t hire these people,” Dolan told Arroyo.

But he said, people responded saying, “You’re paranoid, you’re Chicken Littles. It’s never going to happen.

Well, Dolan said, “It’s already happening.”

“The guaranteed religious liberty wasn’t even given in the bill. We were told it would be, don’t worry, you don’t have to worry, your rights are going to be fine.”

So what did the bishops learn from the experience?

“It sort of taught us that it’s not all that good to trust politicians sometimes,” Dolan said. “And I think some of us bishops think we were being deceived. And I think that could be, shame on us for believing them.”

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/we-were-deceived-on-new-york-gay-marriage-vote-archbishop-dolan

[lucy]

Civil unions between people were the order of the day in the Pilgrim's MA new homeland...ironically. Not sure why they took this tradition from Holland where they had been since leaving England under duress from persecution. But, it was their law.

There is nothing wrong with honoring a civil union. It is recognized by the state as being legal and binding. So why would gays have to have marriage defined for them under the church's direction? If one does not believe in what the church stands for, there is no reason to ask the church to condone such a marriage.

[notoc]

If one does not believe in what the church stands for, there is no reason to ask the church to condone such a marriage.

This line of argument would be almost impossible to dispute if the church only accepted those who were capable of making an informed decision as to whether they actually agreed with and believed what the church stood for.

[johnhp]

Civil unions between people were the order of the day in the Pilgrim's MA new homeland...ironically. Not sure why they took this tradition from Holland where they had been since leaving England under duress from persecution. But, it was their law.

There is nothing wrong with honoring a civil union. It is recognized by the state as being legal and binding. So why would gays have to have marriage defined for them under the church's direction? If one does not believe in what the church stands for, there is no reason to ask the church to condone such a marriage.

i do not quite understand what you are asking here.  Are you asking why gay people want marriage equality?  If that is the case, it is because marriage has rights that civil unions do not have. 

[JC3.0]

i do not quite understand what you are asking here.  Are you asking why gay people want marriage equality?  If that is the case, it is because marriage has rights that civil unions do not have. 

I think "defense of marriage" idiots should be more concerned about 72 day marriages like Kim Kardashian and the damage to the "institution" this type of behavior and disregard brings.

[johnhp]

I think "defense of marriage" idiots should be more concerned about 72 day marriages like Kim Kardashian and the damage to the "institution" this type of behavior and disregard brings.

They could not care less.  This is all about organizing loons for the election.  Some of the simple minded will go along and vote R....the rest will just whine.

[Mornac]

Ya never know though. With more and more Novus ordo bishops starting to behave like Catholics, they may just decide to stick this one out:



Archbishop Dolan Continues To Obsess Over NY’s Same-Sex Marriage

Bridgette P. LaVictoire
November 26, 2011.

Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York has an obsession, and he is not afraid to share it with you. With all the problems plaguing the Roman Catholic Church, Dolan is obsessed with same-sex marriage. Apparently, he has been going off on that subject once again, and here is the Rainbow Sash Movement to explain the latest out of Dolan to us:
 
Archbishop Dolan (President of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops) in an interview on the ETWN (Catholic Cable Network) focused on passing the buck of responsibility, much like he has done with the Clergy Abuse Scandal. Asked why the Catholic Bishops of New York were not more aggressive in fight to stop Gay Marriage in New York, he said it was the fault of their political allies, and he was deceived by them.
 
One could legitimately ask Archbishop Dolan with all the problems facing the Church both within and without why is he still whining about his political loss in New York. He really needs to suck it up and move on.

 Instead of recognizing that the Church in the US has many wounds, Dolan continues to focus on the Gay Marriage battle he lost. One of the most obvious wounds facing the Church is not only those who were sexually abused by priests, but how the whole church has been raped by the bishops mishandling of this tragic scandal.
 
Our immigration policy is so totally out of whack its focus is to break up both gay and straight families coupled with this is Dolan’s love affair with the GOP over the issue of abortion.
 
The closing of Catholic Parishes and Schools, the shortage of vocations to the priesthood and religious life, the dismal record of the hierarchy in taking care of our retired priests and religious only exemplifies how out of touch they have become with Catholic people.
 
While the Bishops give a lot of lip service about the poor they continue support political positions that encourage poverty such as restricting contraceptive services to women who live in poverty. It is time for the Bishops to walk the talk.

Responding to Archbishop Dolan’s bloated whining about Gay Marriage Joe Murray, Executive Director of the Rainbow Sash Movement said “Only when the Catholic Bishops clean up their own accountability concerning the part they played in the clergy sexual abuse scandal will their moralizing be taken seriously. Until that happens they are viewed as hypocrites that are just being dismissed by a majority of thinking Catholics. “
 
Murray further said “Archbishop Dolan needs to repent for the areas in which he and the Bishops have failed, individually and together in seeking healing and renewal through the grace of Christ’s forgiveness.”

http://lezgetreal.com/2011/11/archbishop-dolan-continues-to-obsess-over-nys-same-sex-marriage/

[johnhp]

Look at you mornac...demanding no accountability for the sex abuse.

[Mornac]

... oh, and I demand that Archbishop Dolan be held accountable for any sex abuse that took place anywhere that he is or was in a position of authority over. 

[johnhp]

... oh, and I demand that Archbishop Dolan be held accountable for any sex abuse that took place anywhere that he is or was in a position of authority over.  

Liar.  You love the molestation of kids; it is your favorite cudgel.

[ivanm]

Now that New York is the gay mecca those thweeties in San Francisco will have to migrate east. 

[johnhp]

Now that New York is the gay mecca those thweeties in San Francisco will have to migrate east. 

Where will you go when the starfish gets twitchy?