Amercan's divide over global warming getting deeper

[ivanm]

And what of "refueling stations" for our vehicles?

Have you ever seen one?  I haven't.

That ain't gonna be cheap to retrofit, nor is it going to be convenient for long-distance travel.

All the more reason  to use a mass transit device such as a train or bus for the long haul.  Once again, it may not be feasible to develop a fuel that can be used across the entire contintent.  How often does the average person venture more than a few hundred miles from home, los is it really a show stopper? 

Electric trains are popular in parts of Europe and move right along.  The nice thing about a mass transit device is that you leave the driving to someone else
and occupy your time enroute doing other things such as reading or taking a nap.  I used to ride a commuter bus in the WDC area and had a ball talking to the other passengers.  At a dollar fifteen each way it was much cheaper than driving my own car and was quicker.

[SufferedMoreThanJesus]

Commuter travel may be good in some areas, but they certainly aren't good in mine.  There aren't enough stations, and what's more, there aren't any places to put additional stations as the housing developments are already developed.

For example, taking a train to Los Angeles, while it sounds handy-dandy, it wouldn't work because L.A. is sprawled out so much.  I suppose one could take the train to L.A. and then be burdened with the expense of a cab, but those aren't inexpensive, either, and it basically defeats the concept of not using fossil fuels.

I live in Orange County, and Los Angeles is HUGE.  There is basically one stop in between Anaheim and Los Angeles...and in between those areas, there are no places where they could put additional stops because it's already been developed...with houses.

[ivanm]

Commuter travel may be good in some areas, but they certainly aren't good in mine.  There aren't enough stations, and what's more, there aren't any places to put additional stations as the housing developments are already developed.

For example, taking a train to Los Angeles, while it sounds handy-dandy, it wouldn't work because L.A. is sprawled out so much.  I suppose one could take the train to L.A. and then be burdened with the expense of a cab, but those aren't inexpensive, either, and it basically defeats the concept of not using fossil fuels.

I live in Orange County, and Los Angeles is HUGE.  There is basically one stop in between Anaheim and Los Angeles...and in between those areas, there are no places where they could put additional stops because it's already been developed...with houses.

The following article indicates a well developed transit system for the Los Angeles area.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_Los_Angeles

Central Exporessway is a main artery in Dallas running from the north edge of the city to the downtown area, and is actually a part of US Hiway 75.  I haven't seen it yet, but some sort of a commuter train was created along that corridor, with some of it being underground and some on top.  Small stations or terminals had to be built along the way to make it accessible to the passengers. This whole project (DART) was not done to save fuel or to control emissions, because Texans are very cocky about their getaway machines, and live on with the idea that fuel still comes from Texas and not from overseas.

 The system was essentially built to help relieve the terrifice build up of traffic that was choking the arteries of the city. There was a time when the 8 lane beltway was busy primarily at rush hour but now it is a mess all day long.  Mass transit devices do not run along the freeway, the beltway, because they couldn't make any better time than people in cars do.  

I can remember being on a busy artery near a choke point when an ambulance came upon us.  The driver had to take to the lawns and walkways in order to get anywhere in the tangled mess of cars.  Choppers have helped some but there aren't enough of them to serve all the calls for emergency assistance.  I don't think the solution is bigger and better freeways and tollways but diversification into the suburbs of the industrial parks, which has happened to a great extent However, way too many people are driving clear across town for thirty miles or more to work, and that just adds to the confusion.

The major suburbs surrounding Dallas have large industiral and business parks, but not enough to dampen the daily swarm of people in their personal cars trying to get from here to there.  When I speak of Dallas I am speaking of the greater Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex, and  Dallas proper is a no man's land for most people.  It is so bad in places that even the cops don't want to go there.
 

[SufferedMoreThanJesus]

Mass transit devices do not run along the freeway, the beltway, because tjey couldn't make any better time than people in cars do. 

Ivan, I guess the point I'm trying to make, and apparently poorly, is that once you board Amtrac in Anaheim, there are few stops in between Anaheim and Los Angeles.

And once you get to Los Angeles, let's say you have a job in Westwood, or Century City, or down by the Los Angeles Airport.  The only way you could get to that job from the train station would be by cab (or horrors, a bus) and the round trip for that to and from the train station would be about 50 bucks.

We're not set up for jobs like that in our counties where there is subways and trams like there are in other cities and there are many stops and jobs surrounding and within walking distance of those stops.

That's what I'm talking about.

[ivanm]

Ivan, I guess the point I'm trying to make, and apparently poorly, is that once you board Amtrac in Anaheim, there are few stops in between Anaheim and Los Angeles.

And once you get to Los Angeles, let's say you have a job in Westwood, or Century City, or down by the Los Angeles Airport.  The only way you could get to that job from the train station would be by cab (or horrors, a bus) and the round trip for that to and from the train station would be about 50 bucks.

We're not set up for jobs like that in our counties where there is subways and trams like there are in other cities and there are many stops and jobs surrounding and within walking distance of those stops.

That's what I'm talking about.

Sure, I see your point, but in the case where mass transit such as light rail can be utilized I think it should be tried. One of the problems out here in the boonies is that ridership would be too low to make such an effort pay, so our best bet is to use mini buses.

Overhead trams have always had my curiosity, and maybe the lady from Oregon knows about this one.  Back when I was studying architecture I was given the task, a lesson task only, of designing a terminal for this system.   I think that overhead trams can avoid the mass congestion of street traffic, and could even be built aloong the right of ways on the interstate system's roads.  If the  tram cars were running on automatic then it would save the cost of having a human operator other than the passengers.  

The Dallas/FW airport used to have these goofy little trams that were on auto, and they ran on the ground in a concrete ditch, so to speak, from the parking areas to the terminals.  The dumb things used to stall out once in a while but the design premise had merit IMO.

Consider this as a point of conserving energy and reducing pollution, and this is a cross country proposal.  Fast trains could be used to replace air travel between cities that were 300 miles apart or closer.  When you consider the time taken to go to and from the airport, and thru the security checkpoints, I think the train service could be very competitive.  Airports are typically remote from the population centers, at least the later ones are, so there is added time and expense to get from the airport into town, where a rail service could carry you to various parts of the city as part of its route.

[SufferedMoreThanJesus]

I think it should be tried.

Well, to "try" it, we're going to have to "invest" (spend) Trillions of dollars to find out whether it will even work...whether people are even willing to "change" their lifestyles and utilize this system.

It may solve some of the problems, but I don't think it's going to be the solution, especially the immediate solution, to the way our society is set up when it comes to mass transit.

In other words, it's just a Pipe Dream at this stage.