I stand here (continued)

[Coit]

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John, it appears that makesenseplease locked its thread.

In order to frustrate it in whatever inane purpose it has, I open this one and link to the prior discussion: http://www.newsrake.org/index.php/topic,4879.msg81975/topicseen.html#msg81975

I would still like to see if you can provide an actual justification for your conclusion that President Obama is conservative and a blue dog. To repeat, I think you're being as ridiculous as a Makesenseplease, Ivanm, or an Observer when they mindlessly mouth the old Rush Limbaugh garbage about how George Bush was a liberal.

However unlike Makesenseplease, Ivanm, or Observer I am actually interested in hearing points of view that are well taken. So if you have anything better than that which you have offered, please let me know.

[Sassy]

You restarted a thread that has been locked?   

[Coit]

You restarted a thread that has been locked?  

Are you John?

I checked with Pepsi and it wasn't a moderator action. I see no rule against continuing a discussion that I was having in a thread that was locked by the thread originator. It is apparently makesenseplease's right to lock it's own thread and I see no reason why I can't continue the discussion I was having with John in my own thread.

Do you?

[dustup]

Are you John?

I checked with Pepsi and it wasn't a moderator action. I see no rule against continuing a discussion that I was having in a thread that was locked by the thread originator. It is apparently makesenseplease's right to lock it's own thread and I see no reason why I can't continue the discussion I was having with John in my own thread.

Do you?

I for one see no problem with it Coit.....Go ahead.....maybe John can teach you a thing or two about politics........

[Sassy]

Are you John?

I checked with Pepsi and it wasn't a moderator action. I see no rule against continuing a discussion that I was having in a thread that was locked by the thread originator. It is apparently makesenseplease's right to lock it's own thread and I see no reason why I can't continue the discussion I was having with John in my own thread.

Do you?

Panties in twist. I was simply asking a question.  Excuse me, I was under the impression that PM's were for private discussions and forum threads were for public discussions.  I didn't realize this was a private room for you and JD.

I've never been on a forum before where anyone could close their threads.  That has always fallen to Moderators/Administrators.

[johnhp]

i have already stated my position on that.  With regard to the healthcare bill, his bill was not a single payer bill from the get go.  It is silly to predend that he promoted it as progressive legislation.  Hell, he even said he did not campaign on the public option.

 "I didn't campaign on the public option," Obama said in the interview.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/22/did-obama-campaign-on-the_n_401204.html

i am not saying he is a tea bagger or a republican.  i am saying that he is a conservative democrat.  in our political spectrum that would make him a moderate.  i do not find anything wrong with that, but i would never mistake him for a progressive.

[Coit]

Panties in twist. I was simply asking a question.  Excuse me, I was under the impression that PM's were for private discussions and forum threads were for public discussions.  I didn't realize this was a private room for you and JD.

I've never been on a forum before where anyone could close their threads.  That has always fallen to Moderators/Administrators.

I'm sorry to hear that I put your panties in a twist as that was not my intent. Nor did I intend to tell you that it was a private discussion between John and I, although I can see how you thought I did. I figured you didn't realize that posters here could close their own threads and was trying, poorly, to explain that. I didn't know either until I had to figure out that I wasn't banned (which is what at first it looked like to me). It took me two PMs to Pepsi and some further investigation to figure out that Makesenseplease was playing this dumbass game.

Again, didn't mean to be snarky so sorry if it came off that way.

[Coit]

i have already stated my position on that.  With regard to the healthcare bill, his bill was not a single payer bill from the get go.  It is silly to predend that he promoted it as progressive legislation.  Hell, he even said he did not campaign on the public option.

None of that is relevant. Your error here is that you're judging his politics by what he was able to achieve given the political realities and that's just sloppy. The question directed at you was what do you suppose he would have done had he not had to reckon with actual blue dogs and obstructionist Republicans? In other words what are his actual preferences?

I don't really like the word "progressive" but it is the word you used, and everything I know of Barack Obama tells me that if he were able to have his way that way would indeed be more progressive. 

"I didn't campaign on the public option," Obama said in the interview.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/22/did-obama-campaign-on-the_n_401204.html

Yeah, well. He did campaign on the public option and he was rightfully criticized for claiming otherwise. But that is beside the point. He did not have the votes to overcome a Republican filibuster and there was nothing that he was going to be able to do to get those votes. The real blue dogs were bought by the insurance industry. Just follow the money.

i am not saying he is a tea bagger or a republican.  i am saying that he is a conservative democrat.  in our political spectrum that would make him a moderate.  i do not find anything wrong with that, but i would never mistake him for a progressive.

I agree that he is a moderate but from my experience and perspective that doesn't mean what you're suggesting here. And there is no way he is a blue dog.

[johnhp]

I agree that he is a moderate but from my experience and perspective that doesn't mean what you're suggesting here. And there is no way he is a blue dog.

You cannot be a moderate and a progressive.

[Coit]

You cannot be a moderate and a progressive.

That's just ridiculous. Of course you can be moderate and a progressive.

Had Barack Obama insisted on a public option he would have failed just as Clinton failed. He would have failed like most presidents, including Republican presidents, failed going back to Teddy Roosevelt. The fact that Barack Obama took what he could get and gave up what he knew he was never going to get, under any circumstances, does not render him something less than progressive. 

[johnhp]

That's just ridiculous. Of course you can be moderate and a progressive.

Had Barack Obama insisted on a public option he would have failed just as Clinton failed. He would have failed like most presidents, including Republican presidents, failed going back to Teddy Roosevelt. The fact that Barack Obama took what he could get and gave up what he knew he was never going to get, under any circumstances, does not render him something less than progressive. 

You are making a different argument.  i am talking political theory, you are talking tactics.  i am not interested in discussing tactics.

[IM2]

First off, I would like observer to explain and justiy his comments about Obama being a dictator and authoritarian.  With facts, not just his opinion.

Sassy,

If anyone cares to answer...WHEN is it time for Obama to take responsibility for what happens during his Presidency?

I believe that when republicans can take responsibility for the mess they gave him, he can begin taking responsiblity for what happens during his presidency. This is something neither republicans in DC nor republicans in places like this seem to be able to do.

[Coit]

First off, I would like observer to explain and justiy his comments about Obama being a dictator and authoritarian.  With facts, not just his opinion.

I would like to travel backward and forward in time and space.

Ain't gonna happen.

[IM2]

Coit,

I know it won't happen, but before the blast one must at least give a person a chance to explain themselves.

[Sassy]

Sassy,

I believe that when republicans can take responsibility for the mess they gave him, he can begin taking responsiblity for what happens during his presidency. This is something neither republicans in DC nor republicans in places like this seem to be able to do.

That does not answer the question.

2 years? 3 years? 4 years? 6 years?