Cutting off our noses

[johnhp]

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The right wing are proposing proposing just this with the austerity proposals.  And what will be the effect?  Drop in income, rise in long term unemployment.  This is not to say that debt should not be managed but that it should not be managed in the way Republicans would like to do it.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2011/09/Ball.htm

[dustup]

The left wing is getting screwed big time by buying into the IMF theory of borrow more, spend more and more will be given unto you......Pie in the Sky!

This is the transcript for the Empire episode The IMF on trial (Thursday, Aug 11, 2011)

Marwan Bishara

Hello and welcome to Empire. The International Monetary Fund is no stranger to criticism. In recent months it's been in the international headlines for all the wrong reasons. But as well as enduring embarrassing personal scandals, the fund has much bigger problems. From across the political spectrum it's faced accusations of exploitations and favouritism almost since the day it was founded. But in the last three years the global economy has undergone a seismic shift and the financial world is still reeling. The old divides between north and south have become blurred. Emerging economies and new democracies in the Arab world and elsewhere are taking a look at what the IMF has to offer and are increasingly saying thanks, but no thanks. Is the IMF up for a change? Can it reform itself? Or is it still beholden to western geo-economics?

Joining me to discuss these issues are economist Dr George Corm. Former Lebanese Minister of Finance. He's advised the World Bank, UNDP and the European Commission among others. The author of the New Global Government.

Our starting point is Europe.

The IMF is riding to the rescue of the economy why are these people so angry?

For more than a year now scenes of widespread Greek protests have grown commonplace but out on the streets the focus of their fury has increasingly been aimed at institutions like the IMF.

Greek Protestor

Wherever the IMF gives aid the measures it imposes lead to deep recessions and great unemployment. Already the problems here are great. They will become greater.

The anger towards the Fund isn't restricted to Greece. It's taking place right across Europe in nations at the economic periphery.

Portuguese protestor

For each Euro they are lending us they are taking two and so we are rejecting this plan of austerity and we are rejecting the intervention of the IMF.

Irish protestor

We don't want the IMF in here.  The IMF create the situation and they're in for money and they don't care about the future. They don't care about Ireland.

The problem lies in the fact that the plan put forward to remedy the Eurozone crisis is designed to protect banks and major financial institutions first and foremost. Not the taxpayers. And this plan is partially funded and fully endorsed by the IMF. What makes it worse is that these economic interventions are often justified in profoundly arrogant ways.

Dominique Strauss-Kahn

I understand that there maybe demonstration against IMF. People saying very well known IMF go home. I won't say I'm happy with that but really you're better off with us here than at home.

Marwan Bishara

But who is better off? When we compare the intervention, this Eurozone remedy, is remarkably similar to the bailout programme now underway in the United States. Yet again the banks are being saved with taxpayers money even though those banks are the very institutions responsible for the crisis in the first place.

Much, Much More here

If you prefer the video go here: http://aljazeera.com/programmes/empire/2011/08/20118483924329911.html

Judge for yourself.......

[johnhp]

Do you have anything on point?

[ivanm]

The left wing is getting screwed big time by buying into the IMF theory of borrow more, spend more and more will be given unto you......Pie in the Sky!

This is the transcript for the Empire episode The IMF on trial (Thursday, Aug 11, 2011)

Marwan Bishara

Hello and welcome to Empire. The International Monetary Fund is no stranger to criticism. In recent months it's been in the international headlines for all the wrong reasons. But as well as enduring embarrassing personal scandals, the fund has much bigger problems. From across the political spectrum it's faced accusations of exploitations and favouritism almost since the day it was founded. But in the last three years the global economy has undergone a seismic shift and the financial world is still reeling. The old divides between north and south have become blurred. Emerging economies and new democracies in the Arab world and elsewhere are taking a look at what the IMF has to offer and are increasingly saying thanks, but no thanks. Is the IMF up for a change? Can it reform itself? Or is it still beholden to western geo-economics?

Joining me to discuss these issues are economist Dr George Corm. Former Lebanese Minister of Finance. He's advised the World Bank, UNDP and the European Commission among others. The author of the New Global Government.

Our starting point is Europe.

The IMF is riding to the rescue of the economy why are these people so angry?

For more than a year now scenes of widespread Greek protests have grown commonplace but out on the streets the focus of their fury has increasingly been aimed at institutions like the IMF.

Greek Protestor

Wherever the IMF gives aid the measures it imposes lead to deep recessions and great unemployment. Already the problems here are great. They will become greater.

The anger towards the Fund isn't restricted to Greece. It's taking place right across Europe in nations at the economic periphery.

Portuguese protestor

For each Euro they are lending us they are taking two and so we are rejecting this plan of austerity and we are rejecting the intervention of the IMF.

Irish protestor

We don't want the IMF in here.  The IMF create the situation and they're in for money and they don't care about the future. They don't care about Ireland.

The problem lies in the fact that the plan put forward to remedy the Eurozone crisis is designed to protect banks and major financial institutions first and foremost. Not the taxpayers. And this plan is partially funded and fully endorsed by the IMF. What makes it worse is that these economic interventions are often justified in profoundly arrogant ways.

Dominique Strauss-Kahn

I understand that there maybe demonstration against IMF. People saying very well known IMF go home. I won't say I'm happy with that but really you're better off with us here than at home.

Marwan Bishara

But who is better off? When we compare the intervention, this Eurozone remedy, is remarkably similar to the bailout programme now underway in the United States. Yet again the banks are being saved with taxpayers money even though those banks are the very institutions responsible for the crisis in the first place.

Much, Much More here

If you prefer the video go here: http://aljazeera.com/programmes/empire/2011/08/20118483924329911.html

Judge for yourself.......

"The problem lies in the fact that the plan put forward to remedy the Eurozone crisis is designed to protect banks and major financial institutions first and foremost. Not the taxpayers. And this plan is partially funded and fully endorsed by the IMF. What makes it worse is that these economic interventions are often justified in profoundly arrogant ways."

Dusty I don't want to sound confrontational but the IMF is a bank and is not a relief agency. Given that fact that the world of commerce relies heavily on bank loans, both short term and long term, the IMF provided a vital service to countries in need.  

The idea is to keep the factories open and the wheels of commerce turning so those precious taxpayers will have jobs and something on the shelves to purchase.  There are other agencies who provide relief to people so the angry mobs need to look elsewhere for that sort of assistance.  

There is a limit to what banking can do to revise a sagging economy, and we are seeing that right here at home, so maybe the IMF needs to be more careful where and when it makes its loans.  Would it make sense for the IMF to loan money to the US right now?  I don't think so as we cannot service the debt we have already without more borrowing.
Money doesn't fix all econonmic problems anymore than military might fixes all security problems, and in this respect maybe the motives of the IMF are not pure. If they are in it to make big bucks off the misery of people rather than help economies back on their feet then I say stop supporting the damned greedy hogs.

[dustup]

"The problem lies in the fact that the plan put forward to remedy the Eurozone crisis is designed to protect banks and major financial institutions first and foremost. Not the taxpayers. And this plan is partially funded and fully endorsed by the IMF. What makes it worse is that these economic interventions are often justified in profoundly arrogant ways."

Dusty I don't want to sound confrontational but the IMF is a bank and is not a relief agency. Given that fact that the world of commerce relies heavily on bank loans, both short term and long term, the IMF provided a vital service to countries in need.  

The idea is to keep the factories open and the wheels of commerce turning so those precious taxpayers will have jobs and something on the shelves to purchase.  There are other agencies who provide relief to people so the angry mobs need to look elsewhere for that sort of assistance.  

There is a limit to what banking can do to revise a sagging economy, and we are seeing that right here at home, so maybe the IMF needs to be more careful where and when it makes its loans.  Would it make sense for the IMF to loan money to the US right now?  I don't think so as we cannot service the debt we have already without more borrowing.
Money doesn't fix all econonmic problems anymore than military might fixes all security problems, and in this respect maybe the motives of the IMF are not pure. If they are in it to make big bucks off the misery of people rather than help economies back on their feet then I say stop supporting the damned greedy hogs.

IMF and World Bank Intervention: A Problem, Not a Solution

[dustup]

Guess who holds control of the U. S. SDR -- (Special Drawing Right) at the IMF  

Timothy F. Geithner and Ben S. Bernanke of the Federal Reserve Bank.....

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/memdir/members.aspx#U

The Fed Considers Whether to Twist Again
Sept. 14, 2011
David Wessel on The News Hub looks at why the Fed is pondering another unusual maneuver: not printing more money to buy more U.S. Treasurys, as it did before, but instead shifting its $1.7 trillion treasury portfolio towards more long-term debt.

http://www.marketwatch.com/video/asset/the-fed-considers-whether-to-twist-again/F51EB66F-04E4-457D-929F-49BECB02E6A8



Top Ten Reasons to Oppose the IMF

What is the IMF?
 

The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank were created in 1944 at a conference in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, and are now based in Washington, DC. The IMF was originally designed to promote international economic cooperation and provide its member countries with short term loans so they could trade with other countries (achieve balance of payments). Since the debt crisis of the 1980's, the IMF has assumed the role of bailing out countries during financial crises (caused in large part by currency speculation in the global casino economy) with emergency loan packages tied to certain conditions, often referred to as structural adjustment policies (SAPs). The IMF now acts like a global loan shark, exerting enormous leverage over the economies of more than 60 countries. These countries have to follow the IMF's policies to get loans, international assistance, and even debt relief. Thus, the IMF decides how much debtor countries can spend on education, health care, and environmental protection. The IMF is one of the most powerful institutions on Earth -- yet few know how it works.


Ten Reasons here: http://globalexchange.org/resources/wbimf/oppose

[johnhp]

Again, anything on the actual analysis or are you just going to offer more conspiratorial whining?

[ivanm]

IMF and World Bank Intervention: A Problem, Not a Solution

I think the IMF was well intended, and surely it has done some good. Yep, it has gotten limitations, but that doesn't negate the premise that stronger economies will benefit people in that economy.

Remember the Marshal Plan and all the other aid that was used to help put Europe back on its feet after the ravages of WW II?  Let's hope that love of man is still around when we fall on our asses and need a help up.  If bubble head keeps it up that might not be a far fecthed possibility. 

I realize that you are a Paul man when it comes to finance and fiscal policy, but  the world has grown interdependent and I don't see any going back.  Nor should there be.

If the stronger and more settled nations can  help keep the little places like Greece afloat then that is cheap insurance.  Looking back, Greece is close to or maybe even part of the tinder box for world wars.  Wouldn't you rather the world spend billions in aid rather than millions in body bags?

Yes, these little countries need to get their act together, but pontificating won't restore their health.  It reminds me of a parent grudgingly helping an errant  teenager.  The little fart probably needs to be put out of his or her misery, but love of man dictates that we don't give up.

I would much rather give little Greece billions a year in aid that squander it on the ragheads in Afghanistan and Pakistan.  Greeks are a special breed of Euros, but at least they are  western in culture and aren't biting the hands that feed them, at least no to my knowledge.

An interesting possibility was pointed out the other day in regards to providing collateral for loans to these countries with wrecked financial affairs.  The idea proposed was for the lendors to take title to say, Greek property of value, such as  the ancient ruins.  Why not, with the caveat that someday the title will return to the host country?
I see it as a long term lease conditional on the amount owed to the lendor countries.

Maybe those mental giants need to enter into such an agreement with our creditors? Putting up Chicago or Detroit would be a good move, and the sob default.  Just pull the handle and flush the damned problems.  At least we would be rid of some of the resident pinkos.

[ivanm]

The right wing are proposing proposing just this with the austerity proposals.  And what will be the effect?  Drop in income, rise in long term unemployment.  This is not to say that debt should not be managed but that it should not be managed in the way Republicans would like to do it.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2011/09/Ball.htm

I agree, moving too fast and too aggressively on austerity measures can hurt people. However, it has reached the time  that we pay the fiddler.  We have been playng this losing game for too many decades now and are running out of options.

I recommend that cuts be made in government where the lack of these programs and people will not appreciably hurt the private sector's ability to rebound.  If state and local tax authorities can layoff people by the thousands then where do the parasites in WDC get off thinking they are immune to economic pressures?

If the incompetent jerks in Congress don't have the  balls to make the hard decisions then the people need to start turning the screws by using various non-violent means to
show those bottom feeders who is really in charge.  We need to take our country back.

[johnhp]

I agree, moving too fast and too aggressively on austerity measures can hurt people. However, it has reached the time  that we pay the fiddler.  We have been playng this losing game for too many decades now and are running out of options.

I recommend that cuts be made in government where the lack of these programs and people will not appreciably hurt the private sector's ability to rebound.  If state and local tax authorities can layoff people by the thousands then where do the parasites in WDC get off thinking they are immune to economic pressures?

If the incompetent jerks in Congress don't have the  balls to make the hard decisions then the people need to start turning the screws by using various non-violent means to
show those bottom feeders who is really in charge.  We need to take our country back.

THis is not about making the hard decisions to go hog wild in cutting.  Doing that would be as devastating, if not more so, than doing nothing.

[dustup]

Analysis: QE3 may do more harm than good



(Reuters) - There may be a point at which global investors get indigestion from U.S. money printing.

A fresh round of U.S. monetary easing may even do more harm than good for long-term investors as another flood of easy money into fast-growing emerging economies risks refueling oil and commodity price inflation, sapping consumption and growth.

Prospects for a third round of the Federal Reserve's quantitative easing program (QE3) grew this month after Chairman Ben Bernanke said the central bank was prepared to ease further if economic growth and inflation falter again.

Nearly in one in two fund managers surveyed by Bank of America Merrill Lynch this month said QE3 was likely.

The temptation for risk-loving investors is to rub their hands with glee. Traditionally risky or high-yielding assets such as global equities, energy and commodities and emerging markets surged in the months after the Fed gave the green light for Round Two of QE -- which involved $600 billion in new money in the form of Treasury debt purchases and which ended last month.

But the impact on the U.S. economy and the labor market has been less obvious, given that growth has slowed significantly into 2011 -- at least partly because higher energy costs have undermined consumer spending everywhere. Asset prices, as a result, have retreated sharply again since April's peaks.

This has given rise to a debate about whether QE3 works. If it doesn't give a sustained boost to financial markets and is ambiguous for the real economy, is there any point?

"We have a negative opinion of QE2, and believe QE3 could very well turn out to be ineffective at best, and counter-productive at worst," said Stephen Jen, managing partner of London-based hedge fund SLJ Partners.

"If we are right, QE will be self-defeating in that the more the Fed eases, the more commodity prices rise, which erodes the capacity of consumers to spend on non-energy products and services."

Since Bernanke unveiled the Fed's QE2 bond buying program in a speech in Jackson Hole in August last year, Brent crude oil have risen 58 percent, while the benchmark CRB commodities index has gained nearly 30 percent.

Developed and emerging stock indexes are both up around 20 percent since that speech but they are coming off their April highs. On the year both of them are largely flat.

"My best guess is that there will be a few weeks of positive reaction, followed by a sell-off, as investors realize the circular and pointless logic of (the argument that) QE2 could lead to permanent increases in economic activities," Jen said.
Read more here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/27/us-investment-qe-idUSTRE76Q0VI20110727

[ivanm]

Do you have anything on point?

I take it you don't have any and are fishing. 

[johnhp]

I take it you don't have any and are fishing. 

It is just crazy conspiratorial whining.  Why waste time with it rather than just asking if the guy has anything on point?

[Sassy]

The right wing are proposing proposing just this with the austerity proposals.  And what will be the effect?  Drop in income, rise in long term unemployment.  This is not to say that debt should not be managed but that it should not be managed in the way Republicans would like to do it.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2011/09/Ball.htm

What am I missing, here?   

It's an analysis from the IMF and I saw nothing about "right wing proposals". 

[ivanm]

The right wing are proposing proposing just this with the austerity proposals.  And what will be the effect?  Drop in income, rise in long term unemployment.  This is not to say that debt should not be managed but that it should not be managed in the way Republicans would like to do it.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2011/09/Ball.htm

How would you like to manage it john?