Rick Perry our campaining while his state burns......

[dagon]

We seem to be pricing ourselves out of competition for our very own jobs.

What can Obama do to save us from our greedy selves

It must be a shock to discover that our skills are not quite as valuable on the world stage as they are in America.

it's because of what bill hates has been saying of late.  we're not pricing ourselves out necessarily;  we just can't compete because we've become anti-academic and we are lagging behind the world in math and science.

and increasingly,  our skills aren't that valuable in america not to mention the world stage.  i just got back from the hospital last week with my mom (she was having some tests);  all of her doctors save one were indian or of indian descent.  the 1 non-asian doctor was an elder statesman and will soon retire.

indian families in america demand high-achievement from their children and push them into medicine, technology, science and law.  and it's the same thing over in india.  america needs to change it's focus.  gates said he had to open an office near a japanese / chinese border town because he couldn't find enough up and coming young engineers and developers in the states to fulfill his needs.

we're in trouble because tech and health care are really the only growth industries left to us.

peace

peace

[makesenseplease]

if you're an IT guy,  you already have taken a huge cut in salary.  a lot guys i used to work with can't find a job because companies would rather outsource or hire indian nationals here on work visas for a much lower salary.

luckily,  i'm not in IT.

peace

Why can't these guys find jobs?

The richest man in America is recruiting overseas because he can't find enough people to meet his needs. 

Something's not quite correct.  Why must conservatives outsource when Americans are not working?

[dagon]

Why can't these guys find jobs?

The richest man in America is recruiting overseas because he can't find enough people to meet his needs.  

Something's not quite correct.  Why must conservatives outsource when Americans are not working?

gates isn't a conservative

that's why he speaks at TED every year and gives speeches year long excoriating about the need for america to wake up and promote math and the sciences.  he states he wants to keep jobs here but we simply don't have enough IT professionals and engineers.  we've lagged behind the rest of the world in these areas for years;  it's not like it has gone unnoticed.  it's just now starting to bite us in the ass.

when people say americans are stupid;  it's not just hyperbole.  here's an article on american competitiveness by gates:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/23/AR2007022301697.html

exerpt:  

[But our status as the world's center for new ideas cannot be taken for granted. Other governments are waking up to the vital role innovation plays in competitiveness.

This is not to say that the growing economic importance of countries such as China and India is bad. On the contrary, the world benefits as more people acquire the skills needed to foster innovation. But if we are to remain competitive, we need a workforce that consists of the world's brightest minds.

Two steps are critical. First, we must demand strong schools so that young Americans enter the workforce with the math, science and problem-solving skills they need to succeed in the knowledge economy. We must also make it easier for foreign-born scientists and engineers to work for U.S. companies.

Education has always been the gateway to a better life in this country, and our primary and secondary schools were long considered the world's best. But on an international math test in 2003, U.S. high school students ranked 24th out of 29 industrialized nations surveyed.]

peace

[foodserver]

dagon says

Two steps are critical. First, we must demand strong schools so that young Americans enter the workforce with the math, science and problem-solving skills they need to succeed in the knowledge economy. We must also make it easier for foreign-born scientists and engineers to work for U.S. companies.

This appears to be liberalese for "implement a magical government program."  I don't want to pick a fight with you dags because this is too important to play with but surely even you must be disappointed if the above rhetoric is what passes for analysis.

"Demanding strong schools" does nothing at all to suggest it's author has any idea what is wrong with our schools.  I'd be willing to bet if asked, the author would say something like, "increase teachers salaries" or decrease student teacher ratios" (increase demand for teaching labor)  Neither of these NEA bromides have demonstrated any track record of success in the past but other than just coming out and saying "throw more money at everything that just happens to be beneficial to the NEA" it is all the Left has to offer.

If we want to get serious about education in this country, we have to get serious about ending the government run monopoly on education.  Implement the voucher program, and hence competition into the educational market place.  We could do this tomorrow except for the fact that the "Demographic Party*" has been purchased by the NEA and the public employees unions. Yes I'm perfectly willing to admit that incumbent Republicans bent upon eternal re-election, also share some of the blame...

*Demographic Party patent pending all rights reserved by permission of foodserver

[ivanm]

dagon says


This appears to be liberalese for "implement a magical government program."  I don't want to pick a fight with you dags because this is too important to play with but surely even you must be disappointed if the above rhetoric is what passes for analysis.

"Demanding strong schools" smells suspiciously like "implement a magical government program."  It does nothing at all to suggest it's author has any idea what is wrong with our schools.  I'd be willing to bet if asked, the author would say something like, "increase teachers salaries" or decrease student teacher ratios" (increase demand for teaching labor)  Neither of these NEA bromides have demonstrated any track record of success in the past but other than just coming out and saying "throw more money at everything that just happens to be beneficial to the NEA" it is all the Left has to offer.

If we want to get serious about education in this country, we have to get serious about ending the government run monopoly on education.  Implement the voucher program, and hence competition into the educational market place.  We could do this tomorrow except for the fact that the "Demographic Party*" has been purchased by the NEA and the public employees unions. Yes I'm perfectly willing to admit that incumbent Republicans bent upon eternal re-election, also share some of the blame...

*Demographic Party patent pending all rights reserved by permission of foodserver

I think  that education should be operated and financed at state and local level.  Perhaps a few federal scholarships such as a Pell grant can be justified for those wanting to enter critical skill fields such as medicine, but no more handouts for gasket weaving courses.

People cry about the lack in modern schools and yet I went to a small rural school and it had a rather effective cirriculum, so what is the big deal about more schooling?  If a student cannot master the three Rs then he or she needs more than money thrown at the problem. 

Consider this approach for grades 1 thru 12, which worked well for post war Germany.  Children were screened for aptitude and learning potential at about the 8th grade, and those who had potential to do well in college courses were placed in a pre college cirriculum.  The others were placed in a trades option where they could graduate from high school ready to go into the world and make it as a tradesman.

I think this was a practical way to spend limited public funds for education, and nothing stood in the way of a trade oriented student to also pursue a more difficult course in college level work.   The way it is in America most of the youngsters in trades have to learn it on the job and they get by from mimicking the old masters they work under. For some this is adequate but for the more technical trades such as plumbing and electrical work a few courses in basics would greatly improve their understanding of their trade and woyuld prepare them to do some top quality work as they mature in the businenss.

[ivanm]

it's because of what bill hates has been saying of late.  we're not pricing ourselves out necessarily;  we just can't compete because we've become anti-academic and we are lagging behind the world in math and science.

and increasingly,  our skills aren't that valuable in america not to mention the world stage.  i just got back from the hospital last week with my mom (she was having some tests);  all of her doctors save one were indian or of indian descent.  the 1 non-asian doctor was an elder statesman and will soon retire.

indian families in america demand high-achievement from their children and push them into medicine, technology, science and law.  and it's the same thing over in india.  america needs to change it's focus.  gates said he had to open an office near a japanese / chinese border town because he couldn't find enough up and coming young engineers and developers in the states to fulfill his needs.

we're in trouble because tech and health care are really the only growth industries left to us.

peace

peace

Dagon only a minute percent of the workforce needs to be proficient in math and science.  Even in computer programming, it is something you can learn on the job, and it simply takes time, patience and imagination to learn it.  I think the lack of imagination or creative ability is hurting a lot of young people.  Perhaps there are courses that can stimulate ones creative ability, but pushing buttons is not creative IMO.  

Yep, Asians are taking over the computer and medical fields and are undercutting domestic workers wage wise. However, I have yet to find an Indian doctor or technician that impressed me.  I think their lack comes from the fact that they lived in a very structured society.

When I last worked the management fell for the bullshit that Chinese workers were superior to us Americans, and they hired two from Taiwan and put them in over their heads.
They couldn't hold a candle to even a mediocre American, and one of the problems was their superiority attitude.  I made one so damned mad in a design session one day that he really blew his top later in the restroom because the users didn't buy his design.  He simply did not have the experience or the knowledge of the company's accounting methods to design them a top quality product, and yet the numb nuts in management saw him as a prima donna.  

There is no use fighting the times, but I am certainly glad I don't have to compete with cut throat labor for my bread anymore.  What is going down anyway?  It is as if there
some sinister plot amongst business execs to wreck the American work force and to drive them into working for sweat shop wages like the people in their foreign plants do.

I wonder if those greedy fools can see beyond the ends of their noses as reports are saying that countries that were once bargains in terms of labor costs are now high cost countries.  Japan comes to mind.  Maybe those clowns  need to look around in the states as there are millions of people who would gladly take a job so they could feed their families.  If we could just keep the damned government and the unions out of it they might have a chance for a job again, but I fear that will not be the case.

I also believe that as the spirit of the American worker declines we in time see a lot of violence in the workplace.  As much as I dislike lawlessness I can at least see why people do such things. Where is the incentive to learn if the job door is slammed in your face or you have to play last choice to a line of visa workers brought in here to undercut Amercan workers? It is that very thing, lack of job opportunities once you upgrade your skills, that tels me those who preach more education are more interested in the welfare of the workers in the education industy than in the welfare of the graduates.  And people fall for that bullshit hook line and sinker.

How does it go, those who cannot do, teach?

So who does that leave to buy their high priced output? Who can afford the marvels of science that are made by sweat shops? Something has to give.

[johnhp]

What better resume is there for President than governor (re-elected) of a large economically successful state?  Seriously?  I've no doubt you can go to Huffpuff or somewhere and find an economic angle to put in a negative light and of course we all know that all Republicans want the poor to starve and die and the seniors to eat dog food and so, everyone who dies in Texas before the age of 100, died because Perry "didn't care enough" but at the end of the day, Texas is responsible for 30% of the total national job creation and that right now is what the folks are lookin' for.

How much of that job creation is due to the stimulus?  How much of the non-stimulus job creation are low wage jobs?  How many government jobs did Perry add?  Oh, and how much of Texas is burning because the governor cut their budget by 75%?  Suckcess.

[johnhp]

really, omaha has the highest murder rate?  that's a little surprising.

peace

Marlin would be freaked out!

[johnhp]

Why can't these guys find jobs?

The richest man in America is recruiting overseas because he can't find enough people to meet his needs. 

Something's not quite correct.  Why must conservatives outsource when Americans are not working?

Gee, we undermine solid public education and then we wonder why overseas recruiting is big.