Is capital punishment "Christian" or "un-Christian"

[Pepsi]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZlDF9VCbrg&feature=player_embedded
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It would seem to me, actually it is clear to me that capital punishment is "un-Christian", however I am ready to hear an opposing view.   And I post the video to note the applause from I'm assuming a mostly Christian GOP audience to the 234 whom the State has put to death.

[makesenseplease]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZlDF9VCbrg&feature=player_embedded#!

It would seem to me, actually it is clear to me that capital punishment is "un-Christian", however I am ready to hear an opposing view.   And I post the video to note the applause from I'm assuming a mostly Christian GOP audience to the 234 whom the State has put to death.

I didn't watch the video but I'll give you a one word answer, then you can lock the thread.

CHRISTIAN.

[dagon]

It would seem to me, actually it is clear to me that capital punishment is "un-Christian", however I am ready to hear an opposing view.   And I post the video to note the applause from I'm assuming a mostly Christian GOP audience to the 234 whom the State has put to death.

we went down this road a long time ago at butters.  you're going to get a lot of responses from mornac who will say that "thou shalt not kill"  really means "thou shalt not murder" and that sort of drivel.  that's how they justify it.

even conceding that (which i don't),  that's from the old book.  aren't christians generally supposed to be new testament focused?  i really don't see how capital punishment jibes with the teachings of jesus but i'm sure some one (mornac) will try to explain it to me.

peace

[johnhp]

all life is sacred from conception to natural death.  i am not sure why that is so controversial.

What is disgusting about Perry's remark that he he did not lose sleep over the thought that he may have executed an innocent man, that he has never struggled with that at all.  Except of course, he likely did oversee the execution of an innocent man.

[Boffo]

"Except of course, he likely did oversee the execution of an innocent man." -hp

Who?

[johnhp]

"Except of course, he likely did oversee the execution of an innocent man." -hp

Who?

You don't research issues related to a potential candidate for president?  Shame on you.

Cameron Todd Willingham.

[foodserver]

Pepsi,

You might be mildly surprised by this but there is a conservative case against capital punishment.  I happen to oppose it and I think you would be surprised by Observers views on the subject. If you're hoping that this issue would damage Perry in some way I tell you in all earnestness, that it will not.  I've no idea what Obama's position is on this issue but if he is opposed to it--he'd better keep his mouth shut if he knows what's good for him.

That's not a threat--it's a promise.  Many experts think this issue destroyed the candidacy of Michael Dukakis. (the least disgusting politician to come out of Massachusetts) To my eternal embarrassment, I actually voted for Michael Dukakis over Dubya's dad. (don't tell Observer!) This was way back in the good ole days when Democrats actually felt obligated to field a candidate with an established record of accomplishment. I was 33 at the time and deeply concerned that the rich weren't paying their fair share etc etc..   Dukakis seemed like a decent guy (which he was compared to Kennedy and Kerry)

Capital punishment is right behind gay marriage on issues that will create additional votes for conservatives.  It will bring them down from the hills and the forks in the creeks.  They will teach themselves to read, so they can register to vote to save the world from anyone in favor of eliminating it and while they're there-vote for the Republican candidate.

Dukakis-Bush debate: death penalty	Small | Large

[ivanm]

we went down this road a long time ago at butters.  you're going to get a lot of responses from mornac who will say that "thou shalt not kill"  really means "thou shalt not murder" and that sort of drivel.  that's how they justify it.

even conceding that (which i don't),  that's from the old book.  aren't christians generally supposed to be new testament focused?  i really don't see how capital punishment jibes with the teachings of jesus but i'm sure some one (mornac) will try to explain it to me.

peace

Jesus was an idealist and was more concerned with the spiritual life than with mortal life and civil behavior. That is why he left the everyday  behavioral problems to the OT writings in  Exodus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Any religion that condones lawlessness and murder of innocent victims is totally bankrupt of morality IMO.

You and a few other idiots need to get that Muslim shit out of your heads and realize the fact that the system of justice in America is secular  in nature although it is based very much on the expereiences of the ancient Jews.  Read the OT for enlightenment on this point.  The ancient Jews had a great need of a moral rudder and I think they did a fine job of it.
 
We don't use Sharia law, which is a collection of policies made up by self serving clerics to suit their agendas. Sharia is great for New Age relativists who are hell bent on defying any existing experience proven system of morality.  For some damned reason they insist on reinventing the wheel rather than profiting from the centuries of  mistakes and experiences of  previous ancestors.  I think the primary reason for this is that they are a bunch of maladjusted idiots who think they know it all. Are they ever in for a rude awakending someday.
  
Some Christian sects regard the OT as mainly a place of historical referenes but the enlightened ones see value in the teachings of the OT and choose not to reinvent the principles of morality.  Guess what genius,  I was first taught the Ten Commandments, and that very body of moral law rules againt unlawful killing. State executions are not unlawful killing or murder in case you haven't figured that one out.

Texas is one of the most dynamic states in the union, and if their people want the death sentence then power to them.  At least Dallas is not a waste land like Detroit and parts of Chicago, and their law speaks for itself in that regard. Texans take the attitude that their land is for good law abiding people and not for a bunch of losers, psycopaths, and thugs.

I am surprised that Pepsi even brought up the issue as he seems to be an atheist. Why is the issue any skin off his ass anyway? As usual, his motive is not to question the principle but to diss a conservative just because he represents a challenge to bubble head.  Pepsi has been playing that dumb game for a long time now so I just blow it off and consider the source.

[dagon]

Pepsi,

You might be mildly surprised by this but there is a conservative case against capital punishment.  I happen to oppose it and I think you would be surprised by Observers views on the subject. If you're hoping that this issue would damage Perry in some way I tell you in all earnestness, that it will not.  I've no idea what Obama's position is on this issue but if he is opposed to it--he'd better keep his mouth shut if he knows what's good for him.

puhleeze!  obama's already on record on this issue.  plus he's from a state that has a moratorium on the death penalty because we found we had too many innocent people on death row.  he can defend his views on those merits.

That's not a threat--it's a promise.  Many experts think this issue destroyed the candidacy of Michael Dukakis. (the least disgusting politician to come out of Massachusetts) To my eternal embarrassment, I actually voted for Michael Dukakis over Dubya's dad. (don't tell Observer!) This was way back in the good ole days when Democrats actually felt obligated to field a candidate with an established record of accomplishment. I was 33 at the time and deeply concerned that the rich weren't paying their fair share etc etc..   Dukakis seemed like a decent guy (which he was compared to Kennedy and Kerry)

dukakis got destroyed because he was painted as a pussy.

Capital punishment is right behind gay marriage on issues that will create additional votes for conservatives.  It will bring them down from the hills and the forks in the creeks.  They will teach themselves to read, so they can register to vote to save the world from anyone in favor of eliminating it and while they're there-vote for the Republican candidate.[

obama will only speak to it on a state by state level;  not about abolishing it.  have you forgotten that obama has already gone through an election?  these topics have already been covered and his views are well known;  i doubt if it will even come up.

peace

[johnhp]

Any religion that condones lawlessness and murder of innocent victims is totally bankrupt of morality IMO.

Two questions:

1. What about your advocacy of the murder of innocent persons on this site?

2. How does not supporting the death penalty condone lawlessness?

You and a few other idiots need to get that Muslim shit out of your heads and realize the fact that the system of justice in America is secular  in nature although it is based very much on the expereiences of the ancient Jews.  Read the OT for enlightenment on this point.  The ancient Jews had a great need of a moral rudder and I think they did a fine job of it.
 

No.  It is not based on the experience of the ancient Jews.  That is beyond stupid.

We don't use Sharia law, which is a collection of policies made up by self serving clerics to suit their agendas. Sharia is great for New Age relativists who are hell bent on defying any existing experience proven system of morality.

Okay, so you do not know what SHaria is....but you just advocated it on another thread.  In fact, on this site, i am pretty sure that you are the only one to have advocated ANY aspect of Sharia.

so I just blow it off and consider the source.

Yeah, a lot of us thought you did.

[dagon]

Jesus was an idealist and was more concerned with the spiritual life than with mortal life and civil behavior. That is why he left the everyday  behavioral problems to the OT writings in  Exodus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Any religion that condones lawlessness and murder of innocent victims is totally bankrupt of morality IMO.

You and a few other idiots need to get that Muslim shit out of your heads and realize the fact that the system of justice in America is secular  in nature although it is based very much on the expereiences of the ancient Jews.  Read the OT for enlightenment on this point.  The ancient Jews had a great need of a moral rudder and I think they did a fine job of it.
 
We don't use Sharia law, which is a collection of policies made up by self serving clerics to suit their agendas. Sharia is great for New Age relativists who are hell bent on defying any existing experience proven system of morality.  For some damned reason they insist on reinventing the wheel rather than profiting from the centuries of  mistakes and experiences of  previous ancestors.  I think the primary reason for this is that they are a bunch of maladjusted idiots who think they know it all. Are they ever in for a rude awakending someday.
  
Some Christian sects regard the OT as mainly a place of historical referenes but the enlightened ones see value in the teachings of the OT and choose not to reinvent the principles of morality.  Guess what genius,  I was first taught the Ten Commandments, and that very body of moral law rules againt unlawful killing. State executions are not unlawful killing or murder in case you haven't figured that one out.

Texas is one of the most dynamic states in the union, and if their people want the death sentence then power to them.  At least Dallas is not a waste land like Detroit and parts of Chicago, and their law speaks for itself in that regard. Texans take the attitude that their land is for good law abiding people and not for a bunch of losers, psycopaths, and thugs.

I am surprised that Pepsi even brought up the issue as he seems to be an atheist. Why is the issue any skin off his ass anyway? As usual, his motive is not to question the principle but to diss a conservative just because he represents a challenge to bubble head.  Pepsi has been playing that dumb game for a long time now so I just blow it off and consider the source.

uh,  i'm an atheist too but i don't think anything that you said addresses the point about perry.  perry is an out and proud evangelist;  the dude even held a prayer day for rain.  so, it's more than fair to ask him about his views on capital punishment being that he pounds you over the head with his faith and has signed the death warrants of dozens.  given his personal "faith",  he might be more at home in utah; or at the very least say that capital punishment is the law of the land in texas but the loss of any life gives him pause due to his faith.

something like that would have worked.  i don't really care though because i think i already know what kind of guy perry is.

peace

peace

[johnhp]

uh,  i'm an atheist too but i don't think anything that you said addresses the point about perry.  perry is an out and proud evangelist;  the dude even held a prayer day for rain.  so, it's more than fair to ask him about his views on capital punishment being that he pounds you over the head with his faith and has signed the death warrants of dozens.  given his personal "faith",  he might be more at home in utah; or at the very least say that capital punishment is the law of the land in texas but the loss of any life gives him pause due to his faith.

something like that would have worked.  i don't really care though because i think i already know what kind of guy perry is.

peace

peace

i forgot about the prayer for rain.  i guess that was the supplement to his slashing the fire department budget by 75%. 

[Mornac]

It would seem to me, actually it is clear to me that capital punishment is "un-Christian", however I am ready to hear an opposing view.

--As I understand it, where the government is concerned no one can allow their religious beliefs to influence any decisions about the law lest they “impose their beliefs on others”.

When the question of whether or not it should be legal to allow people to subject their offspring to capital punishment for having the audacity to be conceived, the opinion of a few men on the Supreme Court was that it should be a matter of personal “choice”. If that’s the standard then, in order to be consistent, we have to leave this “choice” up to the individual also. If a state passes certain laws and clearly states that those breaking the laws may be subject to execution, then it should be up to the individual to “choose” whether or not he wishes to break those laws and subject himself to the consequences.  

I trust all those who describe themselves as “pro-choice” are in agreement with me on this.  It’s not very often that I find myself on the same side of an argument with many of you. I’m happy that we agree on this one.

[dagon]

--As I understand it, where the government is concerned no one can allow their religious beliefs to influence any decisions about the law lest they “impose their beliefs on others”.

When the question of whether or not it should be legal to allow people to subject their offspring to capital punishment for having the audacity to be conceived, the opinion of a few men on the Supreme Court was that it should be a matter of personal “choice”. If that’s the standard then, in order to be consistent, we have to leave this “choice” up to the individual also. If a state passes certain laws and clearly states that those breaking the laws may be subject to execution, then it should be up to the individual to “choose” whether or not he wishes to break those laws and subject himself to the consequences.  

I trust all those who describe themselves as “pro-choice” are in agreement with me on this.  It’s not very often that I find myself on the same side of an argument with many of you. I’m happy that we agree on this one.

i think the question to perry was about how he personally felt about it not about whether or not he should enforce texas law

peace

[Boffo]

just because some bleeding hearts dispute a small part of the case doesn't trump  the jury or the numerous state and federal appeals.  it's what they do.

He confessed to his wife and biggest supporter nine days before his execution.  
perhaps it was out of grief at losing his dart board.....(at least he saved his car)

Do you have anything official from the due process chain to suggest that he was likely innocent? a wrongful death lawsuit?  a malfeasance of prosecution ruling?