Crossing the moral Rubicon, the downward spiral in America

[dustup]

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Crossing the moral Rubicon, the downward spiral in America

by Louis DeBroux The Daily Tribune News
9 days ago 
In 1993, the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) wrote "Defining Deviancy Down," which warned of the decline of morality in society by way of redefining morality itself. The standards of morality in society have over time been eroded. Behavior which was once shunned by society, over time became tolerated, then accepted and then celebrated. Understanding that society would naturally rebel from attempts to move accepted morality from A to Z, those seeking this end over time persuaded us to move from A to B, from B to C, from C to D and so on; until one day we awoke and found ourselves at Z. What's worse, few even care at that point.

At one time in America, the moral standard was monogamy between a married man and woman. Sex before marriage and infidelity were shunned as immoral behavior. Modesty in dress and action were not only encouraged but expected. Of course, that is not to say that such behavior did not exist; certainly it did. However, there is an enormous chasm between working to eliminate such immoral behavior while accepting that it exists, and embracing and even encouraging such behavior. Beginning with the sexual revolution of the 1960's, we've engaged in a slow but steady redefinition of what is considered immoral behavior.

In America today, a culture war is being waged. This war is fought on many fronts, but the primary battleground today surrounds the normalization of homosexuality, the acceptance of which would culminate in the legalization of homosexual marriage. Proponents of homosexual marriage argue that the government has no right to interfere in the sexual relationships of consenting adults. They argue that if two people love each other then society should not discourage that relationship, and the law should not forbid the "right" to marry simply because both members of the couple are of the same sex.

Critics of this attempt to rewrite the moral code argue that homosexuality defies not only Biblical law but natural law. They argue that marriage between a man and a woman is not about the romantic relationship between the two, but about creating the best environment to raise children, without which society would simply die off. Since same sex relationships cannot naturally produce offspring, that relationship should not be protected by government.

Proponents of homosexual marriage mock the "slippery slope" argument, dismissing warnings that the acceptance of their behavior will eventually lead to the normalization of other deviant behavior. Yet on what rationale is this based? If the argument is that the government should not interfere with the sexual relationships of consenting adults, then pray tell how (if we accept that argument) we can ever object to bigamy, polygamy, incest and other behaviors currently considered deviant and criminal? Are not those engaged in these behaviors consenting? Then if we accept the initial premise, how can we possibly argue against all that flows from it?

As society accepts the propriety of normalizing those relationships (in large measure assisted by the media, which pushes the idea that objection to homosexual behavior is rooted in "hatred" and "homophobia"), other, more damaging deviant relationships will not be far behind. At the top of that list is the normalization of pedophilia. While homosexual advocates become enraged at any connection between acceptance of homosexual behavior and pedophilia, the writing is already on the wall.

On the website for the Department of Health and Human Services, under the heading "Questions and Answers About Sex" in its "Quick Guide to Healthy Living," our government oracles inform us that children and infants are "sexual beings." The web site states that "Children are human beings and therefore sexual beings," continuing on, "It's hard for parents to acknowledge this, just as it's hard for kids to think of their parents as sexually active. But even infants have curiosity about their own bodies, which is healthy and normal."

It is hard to imagine the twisted mind that equates the natural anatomical curiosity of an infant or young child, with the physical and sexual desires of a post-pubescent teen or young adult. Yet by establishing the false premise that children are sexual creatures, it begins to lay the groundwork for societal acceptance of sexual relationships with children.

To the average person, it is unfathomable to think that such a thing could occur in our society, regardless of what other behavior is normalized. Surely that is a sacrosanct boundary, a Rubicon never to be crossed. But is it? Recently, thirty eight individuals attended a symposium in Baltimore hosted by B4U-Act, an organization that is lobbying the American Psychiatric Association to remove pedophilia from the APA's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), arguing that "Stigmatizing and stereotyping minor-attracted people inflames the fears of minor-attracted people, mental health professionals and the public, without contributing to an understanding of minor-attracted people or the issue of child sexual abuse." Their stated mission, according to a recent article, is to "help pedophiles before they create a crisis, and do so by offering a less critical view of the disorder." So it seems that this group wants to end fears of child rape not by ending child rape, but by calling it by another name and assuring us it is all biologically normal. By that logic I guess we can assure women that they no longer need fear rape, just the occasional "unauthorized entry of a foreign body."

To those inclined to dismiss this as a gathering of kooks and perverts, it should be noted that the symposium was attended by researchers from Harvard, Johns Hopkins University, and the universities of Illinois and Louisville. Their very presence bestows a patina of respectability on the indefensible. It couches the twisted underbelly of sexual deviancy in the Delphic oratory of scientific legitimacy.

In the 1986 case Bowers v. Hardwick, the Supreme Court ruled that there is no constitutional protection of sexual privacy regarding homosexual sodomy. Less than 20 years later, the Supreme Court ruled in Lawrence v. Texas that consensual sexual intimacy is part of the liberties protected by due process under the 14th Amendment. The ruling would overturn all state anti-sodomy laws in the nation.

Today, Kody Brown and his wives, the polygamist clan made famous on cable television's show "Sister Wives," are suing to have their relationship arrangement decriminalized. The basis of their argument relies in part on the Lawrence ruling; namely, that the state has no compelling interest in interfering in the private, intimate relationships of consenting individuals.

In Planned Parenthood v. Casey, the Supreme Court ruled that minors may bypass parental notification requirements regarding abortion when it is determined that they are sufficiently mature to make that decision on their own. If that is the case, then how can the court argue that a minor may be mature enough to make the decision to abort a pregnancy, but not be mature enough to make the decision to engage in the act which led to the pregnancy? And, following that logic, if a minor is mature enough to make the decision to engage in sexual activity, on what basis will the court then deny the "right" to engage in sexual activity with a mature minor?

These are the very premises on which the polygamists, B4U-Act, and NAMBLA (The North American Man-Boy Love Association) have argued for the normalization and decriminalization of their deviant sexual behaviors. We have watched the continuous erosion of morality in our society on these semantic and emotional arguments. What once was shunned becomes tolerated, then accepted, and then celebrated. Where do we draw the line?

Read more: The Daily Tribune News - Crossing the moral Rubicon the downward spiral in America

[ivanm]

Excellent post dustup.

The day will come when bubba will line the freaks up against a wall and blow their their heads off, and their balls too seeing that their heads are usually in their crotches.

[IM2]

Why did you go there dust up?

This is the great American delusion.  This has never, EVER  been a moral country. Do I need to present any more evidence to make you understand how I can come to this conclusion? If I choose to do that, I'll be called all kinds of racists, told I play the race card, and am a 1 trick pony. All of these things in order to deny the truth.

This nation has not changed. There has been no decline on our morality. Things were not better yesterday than now. All of that is bullshit.

It's time we told ourselves the truth, and if you can't take the truth, maybe you need to go elsewhere.

[dustup]

Why did you go there dust up?

This is the great American delusion.  This has never, EVER  been a moral country. Do I need to present any more evidence to make you understand how I can come to this conclusion? If I choose to do that, I'll be called all kinds of racists, told I play the race card, and am a 1 trick pony. All of these things in order to deny the truth.

This nation has not changed. There has been no decline on our morality. Things were not better yesterday than now. All of that is bullshit.

It's time we told ourselves the truth, and if you can't take the truth, maybe you need to go elsewhere.

IM2, I respect your right to your opinion, but hold old are you 29-30? For those of us that have been around a while, America has changed for the worst........If you think America has never been a moral country....maybe you live in the wrong country.......America evolved to a good point and then it started its moral decent to the perverse ideology of Sodom and Gomorrah........Ads in TV, Magazines and newspapers of today would have been banned from publication 30 years ago....now people have sex on the go with their iPhone and wireless laptop....yes America has changed.   

[IM2]

dust up,

I'm 50. And the history of this country shows that the old days were not better than today. What is morally worse than slavery? Not a fucking thing. Yet you sit on your ass talking about how things have gone for the worst. For who? Old white men?

And that's even untrue. Things have not gotten worse for old white man.

What is morally worse today than the racial segregation of the past? Nothing. What is morally worse than the sweatships of yesterday? Nothing. What is worse than the child labor we had back in the "good old days"? Nothing.

Stop lying to yourself, this has never been a moral country. Never, ever.

Sex has nothing to do with the consistent pattern of moral perversion that has been part of this nation. Until you are man enough to face these things, don't try telling me shit about this nations morality.

I don't live in the wrong country. You live in a delusion of grandeur. If anything this is becoming a more moral country. Less racism/sexism/ increased tolerance of our differences, more people willing to volunteer to help the less fortunate, etc.

The good old days never were dust up. And that's a fact.

[johnhp]

IM2, I respect your right to your opinion, but hold old are you 29-30? For those of us that have been around a while, America has changed for the worst........If you think America has never been a moral country....maybe you live in the wrong country.......America evolved to a good point and then it started its moral decent to the perverse ideology of Sodom and Gomorrah........Ads in TV, Magazines and newspapers of today would have been banned from publication 30 years ago....now people have sex on the go with their iPhone and wireless laptop....yes America has changed.   

So what was the height of the good old days for you Dustup?

[Malone22]

They were only "good old days" because we were younger and could do more, and have more fun...IM2 is correct some of those days weren't so great.

[johnhp]

They were only "good old days" because we were younger and could do more, and have more fun...IM2 is correct some of those days weren't so great.

Thank you for your honesty here Malone.

[dustup]

So what was the height of the good old days for you Dustup?

John....where did I say "good old days" I was referring to the down fall of morality in America....sorry you can't understand plain English.....quit trying to make an argument out of everything......

[johnhp]

John....where did I say "good old days" I was referring to the down fall of morality in America....sorry you can't understand plain English.....quit trying to make an argument out of everything......

You discussed the downfall.  There has to be some point in time before which the downfall began.  In idiomatic terms these could be construed as the good old days.  i am simply asking you to designate the time before which you think this alleged moral decay began.  i understand you would do anything other than answer a direct question but try.

[ivanm]

dust up,

I'm 50. And the history of this country shows that the old days were not better than today. What is morally worse than slavery? Not a fucking thing. Yet you sit on your ass talking about how things have gone for the worst. For who? Old white men?

And that's even untrue. Things have not gotten worse for old white man.

What is morally worse today than the racial segregation of the past? Nothing. What is morally worse than the sweatships of yesterday? Nothing. What is worse than the child labor we had back in the "good old days"? Nothing.

Stop lying to yourself, this has never been a moral country. Never, ever.

Sex has nothing to do with the consistent pattern of moral perversion that has been part of this nation. Until you are man enough to face these things, don't try telling me shit about this nations morality.

I don't live in the wrong country. You live in a delusion of grandeur. If anything this is becoming a more moral country. Less racism/sexism/ increased tolerance of our differences, more people willing to volunteer to help the less fortunate, etc.

The good old days never were dust up. And that's a fact.

Hey numb nuts, slavery is not the only issue that is important.  In fact it is a dead issue, so hang your race baiting in your ass.

I agree with dustup's pov on the decline of morality in the US.   

You claim to be a Christian, invoke the threat of divine wrath, and all those other trappings.  Do you really believe what you say?  You must be one of those cafeteria Christians.

I am not much of a believer but at least I am not near the hypocrite that your are.  You use religion as needed to suit your agenda, and that is not what it is all about. Maybe you are one of those ignorrant fundamentalists who assume that being saved gives you a license to sin. 

You need to practice what you preach or stfu.

[ivanm]

IM2, I respect your right to your opinion, but hold old are you 29-30? For those of us that have been around a while, America has changed for the worst........If you think America has never been a moral country....maybe you live in the wrong country.......America evolved to a good point and then it started its moral decent to the perverse ideology of Sodom and Gomorrah........Ads in TV, Magazines and newspapers of today would have been banned from publication 30 years ago....now people have sex on the go with their iPhone and wireless laptop....yes America has changed.   

Some idiots age physically but their mental development peaks out when they are old enough to get a hardon.  That is IM2 for you, about 13 I would say.

[dustup]

You discussed the downfall.  There has to be some point in time before which the downfall began.  In idiomatic terms these could be construed as the good old days.  i am simply asking you to designate the time before which you think this alleged moral decay began.  i understand you would do anything other than answer a direct question but try.

It was gradually John....like boiling a frog in a pot on the stove filled with water.....gradually turning to immorality as the rule of the day....

[IM2]

ivan,

Hey numb nuts, slavery is not the only issue that is important.  In fact it is a dead issue, so hang your race baiting in your ass.

Your old racist ass doesn't get to tell me what's dead and what's not dead.  

I agree with dustup's pov on the decline of morality in the US.  

So? Like your agreeing with something means shit. History shuts you up punk. The good old days never were. This has never been a moral nation of people.  That's a fact old man, and its a fact you just have to deal with.

You claim to be a Christian, invoke the threat of divine wrath, and all those other trappings.  Do you really believe what you say?  You must be one of those cafeteria Christians.

When was the last time a tropical storm hit New Jersey before the one a couple of weeks ago, old man?

I am not much of a believer but at least I am not near the hypocrite that your are.  You use religion as needed to suit your agenda, and that is not what it is all about. Maybe you are one of those ignorrant fundamentalists who assume that being saved gives you a license to sin.  

What does this have to do with the fact that the United States of america has NEVER, EVER  been a moral nation of people?

Eartly stage dementia is the proper diagnosis. Dagon was right.

You need to practice what you preach or stfu.

I do my best to every day.  But this still has nothing to do with the fact that America has never been a moral nation.

Stick to the subject if you can remember it Ivan. Today is Wednesday September 7, 2011 ivan. It's 5:35 CST.

Some idiots age physically but their mental development peaks out when they are old enough to get a hardon.  That is IM2 for you, about 13 I would say.

You can't dispute what I have said old man. Again, stick to the subject, which is :
 
Crossing the moral Rubicon, the downward spiral in America ).

I say America has never been a moral nation. And I can proove it. Can you do the same?

[ivanm]

ivan,

Your old racist ass doesn't get to tell me what's dead and what's not dead.  

So? Like your agreeing with something means shit. History shuts you up punk. The good old days never were. This has never been a moral nation of people.  That's a fact old man, and its a fact you just have to deal with.

When was the last time a tropical storm hit New Jersey before the one a couple of weeks ago, old man?

What does this have to do with the fact that the United States of america has NEVER, EVER  been a moral nation of people?

Eartly stage dementia is the proper diagnosis. Dagon was right.

I do my best to every day.  But this still has nothing to do with the fact that America has never been a moral nation.

Stick to the subject if you can remember it Ivan. Today is Wednesday September 7, 2011 ivan. It's 5:35 CST.

You can't dispute what I have said old man. Again, stick to the subject, which is :
 
Crossing the moral Rubicon, the downward spiral in America ).

I say America has never been a moral nation. And I can proove it. Can you do the same?

Your good old days were when you was sucking your momma's tit.  Now that you have to account for your behavior and support yourself, or do you, your days are not so good.  That is life for a fucking sacred cow that hasn't been shown its limits.

So slavery is not dead in America?  Wake up Rumplestiltskin, it is morning. 

You damn right my agreeing with something means shit, and when I go help vote your sugar tit out of office in 2012 you will see that it does.   At least I am not comatose like you and fucked up on racism, so I can and do contribute to the discussion.   I can also disagree on things too, and it is for sure I don't buy your fucked up bully tactics.

Whether or not America is a moral nation is a matter of opinion Mr. Allah.   There was a time when people had a sense of responsibility, at least my people did, as we didn't have the luxuries that you slum rats did.  We couldn't get away with the shit that you did because white kids back then were expected to know better and were not given a free pass because they were too ucking dumb to realize they had gone wrong.  I have lived around you fucking clowns before so I know more about what makes you tick that you might want to admit.

You are two bit loser and always will be because of your fucked up attitude on life.  The world does not revolve around you and the sun doesn't rise and set in your ass, so get used to it. You are a fucking liability to society, a waste of good oexygen.