Thanks Mitch & John

[foodserver]

Actually, yes.  i find your mewling tedious.

No. You didn't read it.  Well when you do let me know.

[johnhp]

No. You didn't read it.  Well when you do let me know.

i read it and when you quite replying as if you were a 4 year old and someone were trying to take away your favorite toy then i will respond to you accordingly.

[foodserver]

i read it and when you quite replying as if you were a 4 year old and someone were trying to take away your favorite toy then i will respond to you accordingly.

If you had read it you would know that government medical care won't be the problem in Costa Rica that it will be in the US.  That is why your point is irrelevant.

[IM2]

Observer,

IM, I am not going to quote your last post because it would take too long to correct all your errors. However, there are a couple of things that do need to be addressed.

First, the Framers never intended for the Supreme Court to be the arbiters of Constitutional issues. In fact, the thing they feared most was a too powerful judiciary.

Second, they did in fact provide the means to change the Constitution, BUT they also deliberately made it a difficult and time consuming process.

Third, the General Welfare Clause does not mean what you constantly claim it means.

Let's see what Madison, the principal author of the Constitution had to say about it...

"With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." – James Madison in letter to James Robertson

"[Congressional jurisdiction of power] is limited to certain enumerated objects, which concern all the members of the republic, but which are not to be attained by the separate provisions of any." - James Madison, Federalist 14

"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined . . . to be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce." - James Madison, Federalist 45

"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions." - James Madison, 1792


Let's see what Jefferson had to say on the issue.

“The Constitution allows only the means which are ‘necessary,’ not those which are merely ‘convenient,’ for effecting the enumerated powers. If such a latitude of construction be allowed to this phrase as to give any non-enumerated power, it will go to every one, for there is not one which ingenuity may not torture into a convenience in some instance or other, to some one of so long a list of enumerated powers. It would swallow up all the delegated powers, and reduce the whole to one power, as before observed" - Thomas Jefferson, 1791

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson, 1798

How about Hamilton, a guy known best for wanting a strong Federal government?

"No legislative act … contrary to the Constitution can be valid. To deny this would be to affirm that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid." - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 78

I am inclined to think these guys knew a little more about the Constitution than you do.

Again these guys are dead. What they knew about was the world in the late 1700's. They had no clue of how the world would be working in 2011. So then your quoting them has no merit. The courts ruled on the general welfare clause, in the 1900's, so what Jefferson said in the late 1700's has no merit either.

You are one of the first to talk about not ridiculing those slave owning bastards by todays moral standard, yet you sit on your ass repeating words spoken almost 400 years ago in a world that was nothing like the one we live in now.

Either it is irrelvant what was said in the 1700's or EVERTHING about the 1700's is relvant. I'm not incorrect, and I have read enough from the so called founders, (who found nothing but a bunch of Indian nations already established), to know that your using them to argue against a SCOTUS decision because you don't like welfare, is bogus.

Jefferson has made NO comments on internet commerce. Nor has Madison. So then using them to argue modern times cannot have merit.

[johnhp]

If you had read it you would know that government medical care won't be the problem in Costa Rica that it will be in the US.  That is why your point is irrelevant.

No, what i will "learn" from your post is that you will do anything other than have a discussion about the topic at hand.

[Observer]

Observer,
Again these guys are dead. What they knew about was the world in the late 1700's. They had no clue of how the world would be working in 2011. So then your quoting them has no merit. The courts ruled on the general welfare clause, in the 1900's, so what Jefferson said in the late 1700's has no merit either.

You are one of the first to talk about not ridiculing those slave owning bastards by todays moral standard, yet you sit on your ass repeating words spoken almost 400 years ago in a world that was nothing like the one we live in now.

Either it is irrelvant what was said in the 1700's or EVERTHING about the 1700's is relvant. I'm not incorrect, and I have read enough from the so called founders, (who found nothing but a bunch of Indian nations already established), to know that your using them to argue against a SCOTUS decision because you don't like welfare, is bogus.

Jefferson has made NO comments on internet commerce. Nor has Madison. So then using them to argue modern times cannot have merit.

You really are a fucking moron.