Huge victory for the Novus ordo: Ireland apostasizes!

[Mornac]

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[ivanm]

The early part of the video speaks of an Imam being invited to the church to read from the Koran. Is there something wrong with getting to know how those of a different creed?  I think Voris and his crowd are a bunch of xenophobes.

If we can understand the Muslim outlook, and if they can understand the western outlook, then there is a basis for coexistence, but until then we fall back on tragic alternatives, mistrust and armed conflict.  I have nothing against kicking butt in retaliation for wrongs we have suffered at the hands of Islamic extremists, but to treat the friendly Muslims as such is just asking for  more conflict.  When you insult someone do you really expect him to welcome that with open arms?

[Mornac]

The early part of the video speaks of an Imam being invited to the church to read from the Koran. Is there something wrong with getting to know how those of a different creed?

--Obviously not. We could never have converted pagans from every nook and cranny of the globe without getting to know those of a different creed.

I think Voris and his crowd are a bunch of xenophobes.

--Why? Becausew they belong to a faith that is concerned with the salvation of every soul no matter what culture it resides in. You’ll have to explain that a little further.
 

If we can understand the Muslim outlook,

--The Catholic world has been well acquainted with the Muslim outlook since the inception of Islam.
 

and if they can understand the western outlook,

--I’m not interested in them understanding the “western outlook”. I’d like them to understand the Catholic outlook.

then there is a basis for coexistence,

--The only basis for coexistence would be the agreement of the murdering party to allow their prey to live and worship among them without threat of mayhem and death.

but until then we fall back on tragic alternatives, mistrust and armed conflict.

--That's the bed that they made. Unfortunately, we all have to sleep in it.

I have nothing against kicking butt in retaliation for wrongs we have suffered at the hands of Islamic extremists, but to treat the friendly Muslims as such is just asking for  more conflict.

--Not inviting Imams into our Churches to read their book to us is hardly treating them as terrorists. I rather doubt many of them would invite me into their Mosque to read Catholic teaching to them but I certainly don’t take offense to that and it certainly doesn't make me feel like a terrorist.

When you insult someone do you really expect him to welcome that with open arms?

--No, and I certainly hope that they can make the difference between an insult and common sense.

[ivanm]

--Obviously not. We could never have converted pagans from every nook and cranny of the globe without getting to know those of a different creed.
--Why? Becausew they belong to a faith that is concerned with the salvation of every soul no matter what culture it resides in. You’ll have to explain that a little further.
 --The Catholic world has been well acquainted with the Muslim outlook since the inception of Islam.
 --I’m not interested in them understanding the “western outlook”. I’d like them to understand the Catholic outlook.
--The only basis for coexistence would be the agreement of the murdering party to allow their prey to live and worship among them without threat of mayhem and death.
--That's the bed that they made. Unfortunately, we all have to sleep in it.
--Not inviting Imams into our Churches to read their book to us is hardly treating them as terrorists. I rather doubt many of them would invite me into their Mosque to read Catholic teaching to them but I certainly don’t take offense to that and it certainly doesn't make me feel like a terrorist.
--No, and I certainly hope that they can make the difference between an insult and common sense.

Maybe I misunderstood the video, but it seems that Voris was objecting to having an Imam coming into a Catholic church and reading from the Koran. I doubt the average Catholic has any better understanding of the Musliim faith than any other Christian does.  My driving friends are devout Catholic and they don't seem to know much about either.  I don't know much about Islam  for that matter, but I have never seen or heard anything positive about it.

You don't live in a vacuum Mornac, and neither does the Catholic outlook. The problem with extremist Islam is more of a cultural thing than a religious one, and I
think the extremists try to justify their barbaric attacks against infidels by invoking their religious doctrine.

Understanding and diplomacy is a two way street. If infidels can better understand Islam, and if Islamic people can better understand the views of the infidels, the westerners, then we have a basis for communication and reconciliation of differences.  Once communication breaks down then we slug it out as an alternative.  There has got to be a better alternative than that.

As to the terms of coexistence, I agree in principle.  Surely the more moderate Muslims do not want to act out that part of the Koran that proposes abuse and harm to infidels.  Parts of the Koran probably has a historical significance just as parts of the OT does, so keeping these parts in the volume has its risks.  One must put things into the perspective of the present day conditions on the ground, so to speak, and should go accordingly.

It seems that Islamic people are at odds (paradoxical) with their creed in some ways. For example, the Iraqis love things western such as blue jeans, cell phones, and other electronic gadetry that has sprung up from the free world.  If it were not for the more progressive western states, such amenities probably would not exist.
And yet their leaders incite them to rise up and harm westerners as a sort of retaliation for the good things in life they have received from us.

No doubt the educated Islamic leaders understand the Catholic outlook quite well, as if it is all that different from the common Christian outlook.  Once again, you traditionalists are so caught up in the traditions of your religion that you let it get in the way of the primary obective, to bring people to Christ.  In that respect there is more than one way to skin the cat.

[ivanm]

Not inviting Imams into our Churches to read their book to us is hardly treating them as terrorists. I rather doubt many of them would invite me into their Mosque to read Catholic teaching to them but I certainly don’t take offense to that and it certainly doesn't make me feel like a terrorist.


Quote
When you insult someone do you really expect him to welcome that with open arms?
--No, and I certainly hope that they can make the difference between an insult and common sense.
 
 
I think you are a bit narrow minded  and short sighted Mornac.  By not inviting them into your church that can be taken as a social shun to them, and that sort of thing can foment their ill feelings.  It is little different than whites shunning minorities.  The minorities resent that and may vow to retaliate with sterner and severe measures.  It is a human nature thing that has little to do with one's religious beliefs. You need to remember that Islam, like the old Judaism, is a cultural thing, a wa of life for the adherents.  It covers various aspects of their everyday lives as well as their spiritual needs. So when you diss their religious beliefs you in effect diss their cultural habits and beliefs.

What may be common sense to a westerner may be be seen as an insult by a Muslim. Sadly, too many of them are overly sensitive IMO.

Don't take me wrong about my views on extremist Islam, or on Islam in general for that matter. I think it is not a good deal for anyone to follow it, but my suggestions for diplomay are intended to supplement the stronger measures, such as military intervention, that are being emplolyed to fight Islamic extremism. We cannot appear to be weak in their eyes because they feed on that, but in turn we need to be careful not to antagonize the fruitcakes.  Dealing with them is a frustrating and sometimes no win exercise.

I see that Tennesee has passed an anti-Muslim law, so to speak, and I think it is long overdue. Hopefull the socialists in WDC will let it stand when it is challenged in the court system.  I think I read where there are 23 states that have passed similar legislation.