It's your turn conservatives thread

[IM2]

I see that you're still failing to distinguish the TARP and the stimulus from one another.  The TARP was needed, and it was a Bush policy. 

NO SC, I know the differnce. If I would have meant TARP i would have said TARP. The stimulus was needed, and if it had not happened, you would not be here talking your crazy government can't do this or government can't do that stuff. You would be begging the government do to something to stave off the terrible times we would have been in.

The auto bailouts were necessary also. Economies of cities and states were on the line, yet you don't seem to see that. Most "conservatives" think that closing the auto companies down would only affect the auto companies. In my state alone, if not for stimulus money, teachers would have been fired, police would have been fired, and essential city services funded partly by block grants from the federal govertment would have ceeased.

Seems that people were exepcting a miracle, and because the miracle did not happen, those like you are declaring failure.

What you fail to understand about TARP is that there were no requirements for banks to repay. Until Obama made it so.

There are some things SC, that simply do not work. There are some beliefs that are simply wrong. It's not about being so far to the left that we are wackos. The reality of how our system operates means that government has a role. In fact the government is the referee, the government makes the rules. So the government is going to be involved in the economy whether or not you think it should be, and thats because its their constitutional mandate to regulate commerce.

ivanm,

The slovenly lazy Democrats are all crazy.  I am sure glad nothing can motivate those maladjusted useful idiots.

I think that you will get a real surprise in about two weeks.

[SpaceCadet]

NO SC, I know the differnce. If I would have meant TARP i would have said TARP.

Well, you were talking mainly about banks, and that was mostly TARP.  Hence, my confusion.   

The stimulus was needed, and if it had not happened, you would not be here talking your crazy government can't do this or government can't do that stuff. You would be begging the government do to something to stave off the terrible times we would have been in.

The auto bailouts were necessary also. Economies of cities and states were on the line, yet you don't seem to see that. Most "conservatives" think that closing the auto companies down would only affect the auto companies. In my state alone, if not for stimulus money, teachers would have been fired, police would have been fired, and essential city services funded partly by block grants from the federal govertment would have ceeased.

The current auto companies need to be replaced.  It would have been painful, but that would have been a good opportunity to let it happen.  No city-level services should be funded by the federal government.

Seems that people were exepcting a miracle, and because the miracle did not happen, those like you are declaring failure.

We were just expecting something more than continued high unemployment for 2 years.

What you fail to understand about TARP is that there were no requirements for banks to repay. Until Obama made it so.

TARP was indeed flawed as it was originally implemented.

There are some things SC, that simply do not work. There are some beliefs that are simply wrong. It's not about being so far to the left that we are wackos. The reality of how our system operates means that government has a role. In fact the government is the referee, the government makes the rules. So the government is going to be involved in the economy whether or not you think it should be, and thats because its their constitutional mandate to regulate commerce.

This, we agree on.  But they went much, much further than making rules.

[Pepsi]

The current auto companies need to be replaced.  It would have been painful, but that would have been a good opportunity to let it happen. 

SC..  replaced with what?   Answer: cars made in Japan, China, Korea.   

[SpaceCadet]

SC..  replaced with what?   Answer: cars made in Japan, China, Korea.   

Why even have a discussion board, when you can answer your own questions?   

No, with new American companies, companies that are not dinosaurs and that have a fresh outlook.  Companies like Tesla, V-Vehicle, Fisker, Aptera Motors, etc.




How unprogressive Progressives can be sometimes.  We are often so afraid of innovation and limited in our imagination that we'd rather maintain the status quo and stay relegated to the last century.

[IM2]

This, we agree on.  But they went much, much further than making rules.

They did what a responsible government would do.

We were just expecting something more than continued high unemployment for 2 years.

Approximately 90 percent of all americans are considered employed. 9 out of 10 is a pretty high percentage. So consider what it would have been if we let the banks and auto companies die. Again this probilem started before Obama, Job losses have been reduced since he took office. There is no way you can lose 800,000 jobs or more each quarter, and think that unemployment is going to be low. Bush slid out just in time, knowing he was not going to be held accountable for his fuck ups.

The current auto companies need to be replaced.  It would have been painful, but that would have been a good opportunity to let it happen.  No city-level services should be funded by the federal government.

I don' t know about where you live, but in this state cities over 50,000 get block grant money sent down to the state from Washington. This money goes to fund various services. I could be wrong, but every state gets federal block grant money that helps  them fund various services.

As for letting the auto companies die: It's funny how you simply say this would be painful, but I don't really think you understand the extent of the pain. You don't want to see of be part of that kind of pain SC, let me tell you. You talk about living in an unsafe environment, that is what your thinking would have created. You're talking about a domino effect that would have affected millions of lives, added mililons more to the unemployment rolls, and would have erased the US as a player on the world economic scene for at least a generation if not forever.

The dollar would have become basically worthless, and anything you have invested in, woudl probably have been worthless too. No SC, it would not have been wise to let the auto companies die. The assumption that Nissan, Honda or other car companies would just take the places of those closed ones is not an assumption I would have been willing to make a bet on.

Well, you were talking mainly about banks, and that was mostly TARP.  Hence, my confusion.

Yep, but my point about the banks was that they are sitting on a trillion dollars they shold be loaming to small businesses so they can hire folks. But for some reason they are not. And since the majority of all bankers are republicans, it stands to reason they are working for Obama to fail.

No, with new American companies, companies that are not dinosaurs and that have a fresh outlook.  Companies like Tesla, V-Vehicle, Fisker, Aptera Motors, etc.

Would these companies be immediatley be abkle to build facotries all over the place and employ several thousand people? Because t at is what it weas goingto take for this to be even close to a smooth transition.  And what are the prices of these cars?

[Pepsi]

Why even have a discussion board, when you can answer your own questions?   

Great, I can't wait until these companies are ready with mass produced autos the general population can buy at a reasonable price.

But the problem is all those other, mostly Asian car companies have autos right now ready to flood the market and take over whatever is left of the domestic market we have from GM, Ford and Chrysler.    Once we lose the 3 million auto jobs you're proposal of letting those companies go down, they ain't coming back anytime soon.   And all the jobs which depend on those jobs, like the diner across the street from the factory.

All the countries we are competing with get government help in order that they can compete globally.   That's something the right does not seem to understand.   We need more partnerships between government and private industry in order to compete on the same playing field, imo.

[SpaceCadet]

Great, I can't wait until these companies are ready with mass produced autos the general population can buy at a reasonable price.

But the problem is all those other, mostly Asian car companies have autos right now ready to flood the market and take over whatever is left of the domestic market we have from GM, Ford and Chrysler.    Once we lose the 3 million auto jobs you're proposal of letting those companies go down, they ain't coming back anytime soon.   And all the jobs which depend on those jobs, like the diner across the street from the factory.

All the countries we are competing with get government help in order that they can compete globally.   That's something the right does not seem to understand.   We need more partnerships between government and private industry in order to compete on the same playing field, imo.

Instead of spending the billions on the dinosaurs, we could have supported these new companies.  We'd be getting these cars into our garages now.

[Pepsi]

Instead of spending the billions on the dinosaurs, we could have supported these new companies.  We'd be getting these cars into our garages now.

I'm all for tax payers helping these companies compete and bring these cars to market.  Like I said we are competing in a global marketplace where many other countries, particularly Chinese, benefit from government-private partnerships.   

I'm pretty sure the money lent to GM had contingencies for them to produce green cars.  Additionally, it is being paid back in full.

Let me bring some news items, just from today, to your attention

General Motors may be releasing its battery-powered Chevy Volt in China in the second half of 2011 in response to the nation's efforts to increase the number of fuel-efficient vehicles, according to Bloomberg.

GM is partnered with SAIC Motor Corp (SHA: 600104), Nissan Motor Co. (NSE: NISSAN) and Daimler AG (PINK: DDAIF) with plans to sell more cars powered by batteries in the world's largest auto market, which is also the world's largest oil importing nation.

GM currently is the biggest overseas automaker in China, and has yet to specify details on sales target or pricing for the Volt, which we know here in the U.S. will start at around $41,000.00

http://www.benzinga.com/general/10/10/544224/gm-to-start-selling-chevy-volt-in-china

and

General Motors today announced a $37 million investment in its Lansing Delta Township assembly plant earmarked for tooling and equipment to enhance the plant's manufacturing capabilities. 

"This investment is the result of the commitment from the employees and leadership at Lansing Delta Township," said GM Manufacturing Manager Gerald Johnson. "Their dedication to building high-quality products competitively is why we are investing in their future."

Lansing Delta Township opened in 2006 and is the manufacturing home of the Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse and GMC Acadia crossovers. The three vehicles have seen strong sales, increasing 36 percent in September. In fact, the Buick Enclave has increased retails sales 89 percent compared to last year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/carmakers-will-be-gushing-profit-when-sales-hit-15-million-rattner-says.html

I don't see the wisdom of letting GM go bankrupt.   

[SpaceCadet]

I meant to add earlier that we are currently going through a bit of a shakeup in my industry, the space industry.  This shakeup was brought about my the cancellation of NASA's Constellation program.  I lost a job directly because of it.  But now I'm working for one of the companies that is working to develop a private replacement for the space shuttle.

And I have to say, it's probably a good thing in the long run.  Constellation was so over budget and behind schedule that there really wasn't much hope for it.  And I never liked that solution.  This project will be much more cutting-edge.

[makesenseplease]

IM2 is right; we don't know what kind of a dreadful fix we'd be in if not for the stimulus.  We went from losing jobs down a sink hole to a static situation.  At least we're afloat.  But how do you avert a calamity without spending money?  That's what I wanted to learn from repubs in this thread.  WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO FIX THE ECONOMY WITHOUT SPENDING REAL MONEY?  To date I haven't heard a satisfactory answer.  I say 'real' money because tweaking things here and there is just small potatoes and we have a world scope situation that won't respond to anything less than mega billions. And we had some repubs willing to let GM Ford Chrysler go down the tubes. Free market they roared.  You Repubs are stoned off your rockers.  A bunch of fakers with no ideas whatever.  Just same old same old - the kind of sh that got us into this bind. Shame on all of you wanks.

Of course IM2 is right.

Take a look around one year after you posted this.

All over the country liberals are dancing in the streets, shitting on police cars, and singing Obama's praises for stimulating the economy and putting them to work.

Meantime, Obama is tuning his fiddle.

[Case_Closed]

CLEARLY, I would raise taxes on the rich, make gasoline unaffordable, extend the unemployment taxes in perpetuity, shut down all oil exploration in the United States, make regulations so intense on corporations that they would go bankrupt within five to six months (to punish them for taking advantage of employees), raise Welfare payments to the non-productive, increase Food Stamps by two to three times and make alcohol and cigarettes available to be purchased with them, I would abolish the Republican party and make it a criminal offense to be a "conservative," shut down all opposing viewpoints such as Faux Snooze, open the borders because we are all "Global Citizens."

That would be on my first day in office.

[Case_Closed]

[ivanm]

You are right on.  Gas prices are going apeshit.

[Case_Closed]

You are right on.  Gas prices are going apeshit.

This is why we should all get a horse and buggy.

Plus, can you imagine how cool it would be blasting by the Dairy Queen on a really bitchin' Clydesdale?