Has the economy affected you personally?

[SpaceCadet]

You know what?  I've just about had enough of Observer's crap, and I'm very close to advocating for him to be banned, whether correct or not, just to have it cease.  Some other boards have a strict policy against dicussing publicly how the board is moderated, and perhaps it's time something like that was instituted here.

Maybe you can force him to at least take this crap to PM.  Then, at least he won't be getting all of this attention, which he apparently must love, and he will stop polluting every thread on the board with this bullshit.  If he violates the policy, then ban him.

I'm advocating this merely because I'm tired of reading this shit.

[ivanm]

I know nothing about Ivan.  All I saw is your statement telling him he has no right to talk about how hard he's worked.  But it sounds like you know something about him.   Being in his 70s, it's certainly very possible that he had favorable treatment, as a white person, early on.  What do you know about what he has been given, versus what he has earned?

And I wasn't attacking you.  I was merely asking a question about what your beliefs are.  If I decide to attack you, you will know without question that you've been attacked.

I think it's fine to raise awareness of how whites have been treated favorably over minority groups historically.  I have no problem with that.  I just don't want to see you take it too far.  You have to try to see this particular situation through the eyes of someone like myself, who does not have a long history of discussion with someone like Ivan.  I haven't yet seen him post anything racist, though he very well may have.  On the other hand, I see statements like that one from you, very often.  It's naturally going to raise questions about where you're coming from.

If working hard means doing stringent manual labor, then yes I gutted myself every year while I was a kid working on the farm.  We threw bales by hand and hauled bundles to the ensilage cutter by hand.  I often ran the tractor on a plow in the searing heat and on up into the evening hours, and I sat on a dirty combine sucking dirt in the flies and the heat for long hours.  What did I get out of this?  Room and board from my father. 

I worked diligently at my job in the Air Force and later on in civilian life.  It wasn't hard work in the physical sense but the long hours were mentally taxing.   So I guess I should be put down because I was smart enough to make a living as an adult with my mind and not with my back?

I have already pointed out that there were black people in my department at my last  job, and they did not do well.  Some lacked the skills and others lacked the motivation or the sense of purpose to compete with guys like me.  I even showed up the damned Chinese who were brought by management thinking they were superior to American workers.  They couldn't conceptualize, couldn't stand criticism of their work, and couldn't get along with the others because their damned egos got in the way. When you have to compete for a living doing computer system design then it doesn't pay to be overly sensitive and these bozos expected us Americans to bow down and kiss their asses.  Well, those old Texans did not give them that luxury.

In a way I can see IM's point about whites being handed jobs because of their race. Too many times the opposite has happened due to EEOC and the blacks didn't pan out.  Is that my fault too?  In the AF I was in an electronics squadron and very few black guys were in the unit.  Why was that?  Do you suppose they couldn't pass the exams for electronic trade school, or maybe they just weren't interested in electronics? 

I think that black people have a special aptitude for entertainment careers such as professional athletics or music and the like, and that is fine.  They do well at it because they like that sort of thing.  The same can be said for whites that specialize in their favorite trades or professions.  But no, according to the resident racist the whites were handed this attitude and those skills just because they were white.  I got news for that fool.  When I went into the AF I wasn't interested in electronics and when I became an analyst/programmer later in civilian life I would have much rather been in architecture, but fate dealt me the hands and I played them. 

Perhaps a person's home environment has an influence on what he ends up doing for a living when he finally leaves the nest, and maybe even the neighborhood influences his career path.  It stands to reason if the elders in the home talk sports or music then the interest might rub off on the youngers ones.  If the parents aren't interested in the scientific disciplines then they will not likely encourage their kids to pursue such tpaths in life.  I don't know off hand why or how I ended up in electronics or in computer programming and design but my parents were supportive of my school work.  I was a poor athlete, mainly because I didn't care much about it, but I was a good student and I could please my father by operating his equipment in a safe and sensible manner.  In other words, it takes encouragement from the parents to help mold the future of a young person growing into adulthood. 

My father tried to help me the first two years of college but was having to borrow the money to do it, and I worked part time in a restaurant to make living expenses.   Finally I joined the AF in hopes of getting some financial assistance from the government, and I succeeded in doing so.  Was I handed these bennies?  I don't think so as I had to qualify each and every step of the way, academically speaking. Were the exams tilted towards whte kids?  I don't think so, but I somehow managed to pass the tests. 

[ivanm]

Exactly.

Too much of that snake oil he tries to peddle will make you a loser just like he is.  Ask him how he invests
his clients'  money that is entrusted to him, and where he invests it. 

Some people just don't get it.  Wealth and money just doesn't fall from the sky like manna and not everyone can draw a welfare check or work for a government unless there are businesses and people who pay taxes into the government.

I worked for a corporation and I have never thoughr I was short changed by it.  My wife worked for a top quality company that was very people friendly and we still benefit from that because of their generous retirement benefits.

So before you start biting the hands that feed us you might take a look at where your bread and butter
comes from. If the best you can do is to live off the taxpayer then you are pathetic.

[johnhp]

Ivan,

Try less rant.

[IM2]

In a way I can see IM's point about whites being handed jobs because of their race. Too many times the opposite has happened due to EEOC and the blacks didn't pan out.

From approximately 1640 until 1964 whites were given jobs because of their race Ivan. You got your start because of that same exclusion. You have no right to make the comment you did above based upon this history.

I have already pointed out that there were black people in my department at my last  job, and they did not do well.  Some lacked the skills and others lacked the motivation or the sense of purpose to compete with guys like me.

You deny that for example men like my dad who had all kinds of intelligence skills, motivation and work ethic were denied jobs while lesser whites got them. Yet you point out thaqt same old story aboutthe 3 black men. Until you can fess up to this truth, you have no right to make comments. Because you don't want to admit that you giot jobs and things given to you because of your race, but you are more than ready to provide examples of how you worked with blacks who could not do the job. Until you are man enought to admit to the reality of what you saw for at least the first 33 years of your life, then do not post up any more examples like the one I quoted.

You are the example that kills every argument of how I am bitching about things that happened in the long ago past. You live, you are a product of those times, what you were able to accumulate is in most part due to the exclusion of those times. Your ability to get that early retirement is partially based upon the experience you gained  that blacks could not get. Your childrens educations and their ability to be upwardly moblie in this society is all a result of you being able to get work blacks could not get. Whatever you leave when you die is partially due to the exclusion of people of color. You are not man enough to admit it, but it doesn't matter.

I think that black people have a special aptitude for entertainment careers such as professional athletics or music and the like, and that is fine.  They do well at it because they like that sort of thing.  The same can be said for whites that specialize in their favorite trades or professions.  But no, according to the resident racist the whites were handed this attitude and those skills just because they were white.  I got news for that fool.  When I went into the AF I wasn't interested in electronics and when I became an analyst/programmer later in civilian life I would have much rather been in architecture, but fate dealt me the hands and I played them.  

You are the resident racist fool. You seem to think you have got a sympathetic ear in SC, just because he complained about me posting up about racism. This is why people need to shut the fuck up when I do this, because I am doing what I do for a reason.

Black people do well in pro sports and entertainment because it was the avenue where we could first get in roads. They are still today the only avenue that chooses people soley based upon competittive merit.  Even though black musicians did not earn all the money they should have, and that white musiicans made money covering their songs, or that black actors and actresses were pigeonholed into certian roles, or that until 1947 baseball had no blacks, and until the 1950's there were no blacks inthe NBA or NFL, and that it took until the 1960's for the Washington Redskins and NY Yankees to allow blacks on their teams. Yet this fool posts up his shit, and thinks that he actually is saying something that makes sense.

OBTW racist old bitch, today there are blacks in all trades and professions. Its because they like to do them just like your old damn near dead racist as did. But for at least the first 33 years of your life, blacks were excluded from these areas even if they were interested in them.  You can deny all you want, but documentation shuts your denial down to a zero.

You lived the first 33 years of your life in an openly segregated country that had laws existing that excluded people of color. If you do not think that you got thigns given to you because you were white then you are crazy as hell. The law allowed it to happen, and you took advantage of it. I know it, you know it, and only the naive, stupid or white race baiter would argue differently.

My father tried to help me the first two years of college but was having to borrow the money to do it, and I worked part time in a restaurant to make living expenses.   Finally I joined the AF in hopes of getting some financial assistance from the government, and I succeeded in doing so.  Was I handed these bennies?  I don't think so as I had to qualify each and every step of the way, academically speaking. Were the exams tilted towards whte kids?  I don't think so, but I somehow managed to pass the tests.  

You are now 71- 72 years iold. This means you were born in 1938-1939. Segreation was still the law throughout most of the land when you were born. You graduated high school at 18, and that was 1956-57. Segregatiuon was still the law in most of the land then also. After 2 years of college it was 1960, segregation was still around then too. So then all these years you were growing up you were allowed to do things blacks could not do. This is what I am talking about son, you may not think you were handed something because of your race, but in reality most of the opportunities you got, you had was because you were white. You had to qualify, while blacks could not even sign up.

If the best you can do is to live off the taxpayer then you are pathetic.

If not for the taxpayer, you would never had gotten and education and your start towards that early retirement. You wish to deny this too?

Finally I joined the AF in hopes of getting some financial assistance from the government, and I succeeded in doing so.

You owe your life to the taxpayer sucker.