CBO Reports that Stimulus Employs 1.4 million to 3. 3 million,

[Velleity]

Refute them... if you can.

I accurately called you out on your non-sequitur and all you have done is backpedal.

There's nothing to refute. You're done. End of story.

[johnhp]

You really are a sick fuck. How is that whole hanging out in men's rooms thing working for you?

i'll leave that to you and Larry Craig.

[IM2]

Observer,

You really are clueless.

I can see now why you ran and hid.

It's funny how you just gotta keep lying to yourself.

So you say I'm clueless about things like this. Well son, I had a black belt in karate say the same thing to me, and when we squared up in a challenge like I have presented to you, he lost. I pinned him. Put him in a cradle lock and made him kiss his knees.  I am pretty confident that you can't beat me in a wrestling match. And I have not wrestled for about 20 years. But when I did wrestle, it was at a pretty high level, and I did compete against men who won wrold championships, Olympians, NCAA champs and all americans.  It's just like riding a bicycle.

I never beat the world champs and olympians, the closest I got to beating  a world champ was 10-5. But I did beat several NCAA all americans while in juco, and beat an NAIA national champ, and several NAIA National qualifiers and all americans. I also won the midwest AAU Championships when I was 19. So then while you were boasting about what you can do, and how strong your hands are from showing locks, I think you better understand my credentials.

In short, I do know what i am talking about here.

I am sure you wish it was lust. However, I am not Velleity or IM.

No you're not. You are the dumb ass who has been shown just how wrong you are and still you think that everyone else is the stupid one.

Vel,

An interesting point, but not totally accurate.

My "weakness" in martial arts has been my natural tendency to muscle through things. This actually slows me down and the problem is that there is always someone who stronger.

It's not that strength has no bearing so much as when and how you muster that strength. Obviously strength is an advantage if you know how and when to use it. If you don't it can be used against you.

For example on our HS wrestling team we had a guy who was the strongest guy in the school. His wrestling technique was all muscling and his strength allowed him to skip the fundamentals until he got to state. The he ran into a guy who had almost the same stregnth and better technique and got beat. He wrestled one weight higher than me, and I would beat him up most of the time we partnered up. Now if I slipped and he got the bear hug on me, I was doomed. Fortunately for me, I was not a weak person, plus I had real good balance and I was a takedown technician, not a mat wrestler.  I would neutralize his strength by taking him down and riding him as long as I could then letting him up. Since a takedown is 2 points and a escape one, I'd just get 4-5 takedowns and let him up 4-5 times and win.

As it pertains to showing locks and strength, there  is only one way to get stronger, and thats through stregnth training. You are not going to get as strong as you can simply by showing locks. I have seen string bean poles beat the shit out of musclemen on the mat. I saw this in college wrestling matches, and both guys knew what they were doing. That's how I come to the conclusion that I did. There are always exceptions as well.

You definetly must know how to master your stregnth and techinque in order to be sucessful in martial arts.

[Velleity]

Anyone who does not believe strength is a key factor in controlling an opponent is an idiot.

Lack of knowledge on a particular subject doesn't make someone "an idiot", but it's telling that you would make a dumb assertion like this. You really should get some anger management counseling.

That said, I do believe I acknowledged the role of strength. Are you really suggesting that strength can't be misapplied or that under certain circumstance it can't be used against the one misapplying it?

I am a lot stronger than master Lin and he uses my strength against me every time.

[Observer]

I accurately called you out on your non-sequitur and all you have done is backpedal.

There's nothing to refute. You're done. End of story.

I guess that means you can't.

Okay.

[Velleity]

I guess that means you can't.

Okay.

Your track record on guessing isn't good.

[Observer]

Lack of knowledge on a particular subject doesn't make someone "an idiot", but it's telling that you would make a dumb assertion like this.

Claiiming knowledge you do not possess, does.

You really should get some anger management counseling.

You should get some new material.

That said, I do believe I acknowledged the role of strength.

I am aware of that. My comment was directed toward, the idiot, IM.

Are you really suggesting that strength can't be misapplied or that under certain circumstance it can't be used against the one misapplying it?

Of course it can. You missed the entire point. Strength itself is not the end all. Nor is technique.

If you take to fighters of essentially equal skill and neither of them makes any mistakes, the stronger will invariable win. Applying control techniques requires a great deal more than just skill. About a week ago, I had a real world situation in which a 300+ pound assailant tried to get me in a front choke. TECHNIQUE enabled me to slip the choke and set up my control measure. STRENGTH enabled me to keep the behemoth pressed face first against a vertical surface (tree trunk) until the fight was out of him. STRENGTH was what enabled me to control him without doing any real physical damage to him.

One without the other is useless.

I am a lot stronger than master Lin and he uses my strength against me every time.

That is only because you haven't yet learned to USE your strength in the most effective manner. I suspect you will, though... if you want to.

I wear a size 13 ring. I have ended altercations by simply applying pressure to a forearm or to the traps or pecs. I have spent a lot of time developing my hand strength because I think it is as important and necessary as good technique.

[Velleity]

Re: strength. . .

You're saying exactly what I was saying.

[Observer]

I was never disagreeing with you.

[IM2]

If you take to fighters of essentially equal skill and neither of them makes any mistakes, the stronger will invariable win.

That is not always the case. I have seen it. In any fight mistakes are going to be made. There is no perfect fight. somebody left an opening to be used against them.

There is an old saying that applies here and seems to be ignored. Its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of fight in the dog. It's all about heart. If anything if there is a fight between combatants of equal skill and neither of them makes any mistakes, the one who is fitter cardio wise will win. The real strong guy might get tired faster and then his strength is negated.

Claiiming knowledge you do not possess, does.

The only problem with what you say is that I have been trained in Kempo, Tae Kwon do, and wrestling. I think I do know something about hand to hand combat, pressure points and submisison holds or locks intended to diffuse situations. I once worked as a doorman fool, you don't have the patent on this science.

I also understand how the combination of strength and the ability to use what you learn relative to different fight strategies can benefit people. I have historically benched twice my body weight, squatted 4 times my body weight. Earlier this year and at age 49, the last time I maxed  out at about 1.8 times my body weight on the bench and still about 3.5 times my body weight on squats. At 185 pounds thats a bench of about 350 pounds and I still squat around 600 pounds. I spent 20 years stregnth training to play rugby. Before that I worked out for other sports. So I think I do know something  about what I am talking about observer.

On top of that like vel studied economics on the side while in college, I studied physical education on the side. The human body is an amazing thing, and it doesn't take steroids for one to get real strong.

[Velleity]

It is true that on any given day anyone can end up beating anyone else. We're talking odds here--not foregone conclusions.

Moreover "winning" can be subjective. Just because you "won" doesn't mean you didn't get seriously injured. I had a sifu who was a member of the Beijing Wushu team and when he retired he moved on to full contact fighting in China. He told us that he never lost a match, and he never didn't get seriously injured.

He's an interesting guy: Jinheng Li.

[Observer]

I once worked as a doorman fool

Did you get to wear one of those Michael Jackson suits with the braid and the fancy hat?

What hotel was it?

What is the going pay rate for a doorman fool these days?

[IM2]

I don't know.  What do you get when you walk the malls Paul Blart?

No one ever truly wins a street fight.