Some interesting questions

[IM2]

ivanm,

IM2, if I  remember correctly the Pilgrims and others migrated to America to escape the rigors of the old Anglican church, which was apparently the official church of England. It follows that a number of the founding fathers were also religious and were apparently Christian.  I think freedom of religion clause in the constitution was probably the result of the relligious persecution these people and their ancestors experienced in the old country. I think it is fair to say that early America was predominately Christian in make up and therefore was regarded as having Christian underpinnings.

The bibile says something about people claiming to be christians but not living by Gods laws. This is the foundation our country was built upon. People claiming to be christian, but really were not. It's time to stop lying o to ourselves ivan.

So like I siad the founders were not christian, and it doesn't matter what you say because what you do is repeat the lie we have told ourselves for 234 years.  Repeating this lie will ensure that we get another 9-11 if not something worse. Repeataing this lie allows you to make the very racist comments you amde abut Muslims riding on Camels and living in in caves.

You do not claim to be christian and own slaves. Nor do you claim to be christian and use biological warfare to take out the indian tribes. So like I will keep saying the founders were not christians.

[SpaceCadet]

For the record I now think that all religion is a joke, because no matter what religion you belong to it's supposed to be the one true way and belief and all others are not right. Right? So how, can everyone else except for any one group or religion be all wrong? No matter what religion you are-you are right and everyone else is wrong. And if you think about it, this is the basis of many wars in the world-arguing over religion and "truth". There are always arguments between Catholics and Protestants. Jews and Christians of any denominations, Mornac has a struggle within the Catholic church between (Non and also Pro) Novus Ordo...Jews have their own inner struggles between orthodox and non. Muslims have many divisions Sunni Sharia Wahabi? Who is to say and how can any one religion ever be right? and then the rest all wrong? Religion is a joke. plain and simple. There is no one truth other than there is no one truth..

This is all basically true, of course.  Most organized religions have corrupted the original teachings and intent of their "prophets" with layers of BS over time so that they are not really recognizable any longer as when they were originally founded.  The great spiritual teachers of history, Buddha, Mohammad, Jesus, Gandhi, essentially taught that humans should live an "authentic" life, being authentic to who they are as a human.  This authenticity has nothing to do with a person's politics, or desires, or even thoughts.  The real goal of prayer and meditation is to raise your consciousness above the clamor of everyday concerns and activity, and to quiet the thoughts that are constantly running through your head, to realize that none of that stuff is "you".  You are not your politics, nor your desires, nor even your thoughts.  Once you glimpse that, you also realize how all consciousness is tied together.  I know that sounds "new agey", and I'm not that sort of person, but I was led to that realization a couple of years ago through a completely secular source.

If a person comes to realize what being truly authentic to themselves means, then they can begin living that authentic life more, and that is the source of true peace.  This is basicaly what these great teachers were trying to get across.

If this sounds at all interesting, you can check out a Landmark Forum (www.landmark.com), which is the class I went through, or take a look at the book "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle.  The two are completely unrelated, but endeavor to teach all the same basic stuff.

[IM2]

JC,

There is one truth, but it has nothing to do with religion. It's about spirituality. God is a spirit at this time. Jesus left a spirit. Humans made religion. Spirituality is infallable, religion is full of mistakes and contradictions.

[johnhp]

No doubt about it ... how does the song go, "Hate your next-door neighbour, but don't forget to say Grace." ?

Exctly...or more to the point for Mornac....

'Cos everybody's got to have somebody to look down on.
Who they can feel better than at anytime they please.

[johnhp]

IM2, if I  remember correctly the Pilgrims and others migrated to America to escape the rigors of the old Anglican church, which was apparently the official church of England. It follows that a number of the founding fathers were also religious and were apparently Christian.  I think freedom of religion clause in the constitution was probably the result of the relligious persecution these people and their ancestors experienced in the old country. I think it is fair to say that early America was predominately Christian in make up and therefore was regarded as having Christian underpinnings.

Not the Christian underpinning our right wingers would recognize.  Some of them were Deists for God's sake.  Hell, Jefferson took scissors to the Bible and owned a Quoran!!!!!

[johnhp]

But at the same time I cannot stress the importance of the fact that the words "under God" were not inserted into the pledge until the 1950's - a good century and half later than this country was founded, and that we were not established as a "christian" nation but a nation with freedom of ANY KIND of worship, which is something tha seems to be whitewashed over by todays christians who, if they have their way will forcefuck us all into worshipping One God, Their God, THEIR way. And that is just plain wrong because that is exactly what the founding fathers ran away from and tried to make damn sure would NOT happen in America. In other words-they wanted FREEDOM in the true sense of the word.

The pledge was written by a Baptist minister....who was also a socialist.  i wonder how many of those baby eating dingo republicans would never say the pledge again if they knew that?

That being the case, there should be NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with the "ground zero mosque" especially because it isn't on ground zero and it's not really a mosque. Why must republicans lie? That's what it is-This whole "ground zero mosque" argument is a lie. Flat out lie.

They have to lie when the truth will not do.

[johnhp]

This is all basically true, of course.  Most organized religions have corrupted the original teachings and intent of their "prophets" with layers of BS over time so that they are not really recognizable any longer as when they were originally founded.

All living systems of ideas change over time, don't they?  i think you are looking at religion too monolithically here.  Certainly there are monstrous aspects to religion, however, i think the various founders of the various faiths would recognize positive development of their teachings.

The great spiritual teachers of history, Buddha, Mohammad, Jesus, Gandhi, essentially taught that humans should live an "authentic" life, being authentic to who they are as a human.  This authenticity has nothing to do with a person's politics, or desires, or even thoughts.  The real goal of prayer and meditation is to raise your consciousness above the clamor of everyday concerns and activity, and to quiet the thoughts that are constantly running through your head, to realize that none of that stuff is "you".

i do not think that is accurate at all.  You will, i hope, forgive me as someone who happens to be an actual specialist in this area, but it seems to me that the goal of the various religions is not really this wisdom traditions stuff that was shoveled out, and sometimes continues to be shoveled out.  Seems to me religion is about service to others.

  You are not your politics, nor your desires, nor even your thoughts.  Once you glimpse that, you also realize how all consciousness is tied together.  I know that sounds "new agey", and I'm not that sort of person, but I was led to that realization a couple of years ago through a completely secular source.

i know that kind of thinking is popularish, but i do not buy it.