Some interesting questions

[Mornac]

• Tweet

Obama's Ramadan blessing

August 14, 2010
By Joseph Farah

There's a whole lot of pretending going on in our world today.

We have a federal judge ruling that the 5,000-year-old institution of marriage was "biased" and immoral from the start because of the way it discriminated unfairly against homosexuals.

We have a Justice Department that dismissed an open-and-shut case of vigilante-style voter intimidation because the perpetrators were black and the victims white.

And we have a man in the White House who extols Islam for "advancing justice, progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings."

That's what I call pretending.

In blessing the Muslim holiday of Ramadan, Barack Obama added that Islam "is a faith known for great diversity and racial equality" and that it "has always been part of America."

I have more than a passing knowledge of Islam that includes firsthand experience and a significant amount of study over the last 30 years. But somehow I must have missed the advancements of justice, progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.

Honestly, I can think of none.

Did I overlook a reformation in the religion that has resulted in one genocide after another for the last 1,300 years? Racial equality? Has the Quran been rewritten to excise Muhammad's characterizations of blacks as "ugly," "raisin heads" and "pug-nosed slaves"?

Didn't it also say in that book that when Allah created the white man, he touched his right shoulder and he came out destined for paradise, but when he touched the left shoulder of the black man, he came out destined for hell?

Who does Obama think sold all those millions of black Africans into slavery in Europe and America? Is he not aware that black slavery is still alive in some Muslim countries in the Middle East?

Justice? Talk to me about it after you finish reading "The Stoning of Soriah M."

Progress? Can you name for me one major scientific or social advancement we can historically and accurately attribute to Islam?

Tolerance? I quote: "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." Today, imams in the Middle East and elsewhere still quote Muhammad's hadith as their current marching orders: "The Hour [Day of Resurrection] will not arrive until you fight the Jews, [until a Jew will hide behind a rock or tree] and the rock and the tree will say: 'Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'"

Dignity of all human beings? In Islam, Muslim males have a higher worth than any others. A Muslim man can have up to four wives, beat them and change them as he pleases.

How about Islam always being a part of America?

Perhaps Obama is referring to the Barbary pirates attacking American commercial ships, capturing their crews and holding them for ransom. Or maybe he's thinking back further to the reason Christopher Columbus journeyed West – to find a safe trade route to the East, one that would mean avoiding the murderous mujahedeen who had blocked the land routes.

I don't know.

What do you think he's talking about?

Were any of the founders Muslim?

What are the great Muslim moments in American history?

Maybe all of this sounds harsh.

But somebody's got to say it.

I'm not going to sit still while this pretender of an American president lies about the historical record and misrepresents evil as good.

It's time to stop pretending.



http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=191081

[IM2]

Mornac,

Quit posting from Werold Net.

For example, this is a fucking lie:

We have a Justice Department that dismissed an open-and-shut case of vigilante-style voter intimidation because the perpetrators were black and the victims white.

Likewise, the New Black Panther Party debacle is rooted in a level of intellectual mendacity that is rare even for a right-wing that has demonstrated its willingness to race-bait black folks for years without compunction.

In the case of the New Black Panther Party, the so-called intimidation of white voters by black militants led to an injunction against the leader of the Philadelphia chapter--the only one who was carrying a potential weapon, a nightstick, outside the polling place on election day, 2008. In other words, punishment was forthcoming and King Samir Shabazz, the only Panther against whom a case could have been made, has been legally held responsible for his actions. This, in spite of the fact that not one voter ever stepped forward to indicate they had been intimidated, or threatened, or blocked from voting. Even the Civil Rights Commission's leading conservative Republican says the right-wing/FOX feeding frenzy over the story is unwarranted.

But despite the vapidity of the story, FOX has hyped it with over nine hours of breathless coverage, giving airtime to those who continue to insist that the Obama Administration "dropped the charges" against the Panthers because of a political/racial directive not to pursue cases involving white victims. This, despite the fact that it was the Bush Administration that dropped the criminal charges, and the Obama Administration that successfully got an injunction put in place against Shabazz. And again, despite the fact that not one white voter has even hinted that they were victimized. Interestingly, FOX has given spokespersons for the New Black Panthers--a small group with no significant reach or influence--continued airtime over the years, with more than 50 appearances on various of the network's shows. In other words, the right sees the political payoff in keeping whites afraid of black anger, and has done everything they can to feed white fear, both before and after these immediate stories broke.

And even on the individual level, while the Panther leader has been legally sanctioned for his actions, and while the story about King Samir Shabazz has received non-stop coverage on FOX, the Bush Justice Department really did ignore voter intimidation allegations against the anti-immigrant Minutemen in Arizona in 2006. And that case--in which the Minutemen stood outside the polling place with loaded weapons, questioning Latino voters about their ability to speak English.

Finally none of the founders were christian either, but this is what those like this man and mornac claim is our religious heritage.

[SpaceCadet]

Finally none of the founders were christian either, but this is what those like this man and mornac claim is our religious heritage.

That's simply not true.

"Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics: C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (Episcopalian, after the Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists, the total number being 49. Some of the more prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical or vocal about their opposition to organized religion, such as Thomas Jefferson. (who created the "Jefferson Bible"), and Benjamin Franklin. However, other notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to those of deists"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States#Religion

[nraforlife]

................................
How about Islam always being a part of America?


............

Kunta Kinte was moslem

[IM2]

SC,

They were just as christian as the guys were muslims who perpetrated the acts on 9-11. Most of them held slaves  and allowed slavery to be legal. That is not a christian act. So then they were not christian. Jesus said if you lvoe me you will keep my commandments. One of those commandments said not to covet what is not yours. The freedom of every individual belongs to no one but that person. Freedom was taken becaue the so called founders and others coveted free labor.

They stole the land from the Indians, because they coveted it. The land was not theirs, that continued to happen after slavery, and still today we have built a nation on stolen land. They lied, or beared false witness to the indians making promises they never kept, and Thomas Jefferson's plan was simply to remove them by force of military out of their homes. That policy is documented and is called the Indian Removal Policy. Not a christian act at all.

This is because they did not truly believe all men were gods children. They believed that the white man was gods child and everyone else a heathen. Just like we have people here today who believe that all muslims are all heathens just because of an act of 19 out of several billion.

That's why I said they were not christian SC. Its time to stop repeating lies. We have lied to ourselves about ourselves for so long that it just becomes second nature to many of us.

[ivanm]

Obama's Ramadan blessing

August 14, 2010
By Joseph Farah

There's a whole lot of pretending going on in our world today.

We have a federal judge ruling that the 5,000-year-old institution of marriage was "biased" and immoral from the start because of the way it discriminated unfairly against homosexuals.

We have a Justice Department that dismissed an open-and-shut case of vigilante-style voter intimidation because the perpetrators were black and the victims white.

And we have a man in the White House who extols Islam for "advancing justice, progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings."

That's what I call pretending.

In blessing the Muslim holiday of Ramadan, Barack Obama added that Islam "is a faith known for great diversity and racial equality" and that it "has always been part of America."

I have more than a passing knowledge of Islam that includes firsthand experience and a significant amount of study over the last 30 years. But somehow I must have missed the advancements of justice, progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.

Honestly, I can think of none.

Did I overlook a reformation in the religion that has resulted in one genocide after another for the last 1,300 years? Racial equality? Has the Quran been rewritten to excise Muhammad's characterizations of blacks as "ugly," "raisin heads" and "pug-nosed slaves"?

Didn't it also say in that book that when Allah created the white man, he touched his right shoulder and he came out destined for paradise, but when he touched the left shoulder of the black man, he came out destined for hell?

Who does Obama think sold all those millions of black Africans into slavery in Europe and America? Is he not aware that black slavery is still alive in some Muslim countries in the Middle East?

Justice? Talk to me about it after you finish reading "The Stoning of Soriah M."

Progress? Can you name for me one major scientific or social advancement we can historically and accurately attribute to Islam?

Tolerance? I quote: "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." Today, imams in the Middle East and elsewhere still quote Muhammad's hadith as their current marching orders: "The Hour [Day of Resurrection] will not arrive until you fight the Jews, [until a Jew will hide behind a rock or tree] and the rock and the tree will say: 'Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'"

Dignity of all human beings? In Islam, Muslim males have a higher worth than any others. A Muslim man can have up to four wives, beat them and change them as he pleases.

How about Islam always being a part of America?

Perhaps Obama is referring to the Barbary pirates attacking American commercial ships, capturing their crews and holding them for ransom. Or maybe he's thinking back further to the reason Christopher Columbus journeyed West – to find a safe trade route to the East, one that would mean avoiding the murderous mujahedeen who had blocked the land routes.

I don't know.

What do you think he's talking about?

Were any of the founders Muslim?

What are the great Muslim moments in American history?

Maybe all of this sounds harsh.

But somebody's got to say it.

I'm not going to sit still while this pretender of an American president lies about the historical record and misrepresents evil as good.

It's time to stop pretending.



http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=191081

I have a real problem with someone who puts his religion before his country or his race before his country.  This is a melting pot and we are all Americans first and our religious practices should not challenge that unity.  Maybe I am mistaken, but Islam proposes to do that very thing, to destroy us as Americans and either make us subjects of Islam or else kill us.

Islam to me looks very much like a sort of nationality.  If their way of life is so superior to us then why are they envious of the western world and its standard of living?  We don't live in huts and caves they do.  We don't ride camels or walk, they do. If their way of life is so superior to ours then I must be missing something because I cannot see why they believe that.  Oh well, ignorance is bliss to those jokers.

[notoc]

We don't live in huts and caves they do.  We don't ride camels or walk, they do.

Hey ivan ... just out of interest, any idea of the percentage of Muslims who live in caves and ride camels?

[johnhp]

Hey ivan ... just out of interest, any idea of the percentage of Muslims who live in caves and ride camels?

notoc

are you seriously expecting an response that is, in any sense, reasonable?

[notoc]

notoc

are you seriously expecting an response that is, in any sense, reasonable?

I suspected ivan's 'caves and camels' comment was hyperbole ... but I thought I'd just check.

[johnhp]

I suspected ivan's 'caves and camels' comment was hyperbole ... but I thought I'd just check.

Sadly, i am concerned that so much over the top rhetoric concerning Islam is heartfelt.

[notoc]

Sadly, i am concerned that so much over the top rhetoric concerning Islam is heartfelt.

No doubt about it ... how does the song go, "Hate your next-door neighbour, but don't forget to say Grace." ?

[IM2]

I have a real problem with someone who puts his religion before his country or his race before his country.  This is a melting pot and we are all Americans first and our religious practices should not challenge that unity.  Maybe I am mistaken, but Islam proposes to do that very thing, to destroy us as Americans and either make us subjects of Islam or else kill us.

You have spent your entire life putting your race before your country old racist white man. So then you have a problem with yourself that you need to solve before you can comment upon others. There is no unity in this nation. Islam is no threat to a unity that does not exist. You are mistaken about Islam, they are no more  interested in destroying americans than christians are in destroying Muslims.

It's funny how you anti government people think. You claim to not believe anything the govnerment says and does until its time the government says somethng that matches your hate of others.

Islam to me looks very much like a sort of nationality.  If their way of life is so superior to us then why are they envious of the western world and its standard of living?  We don't live in huts and caves they do.  We don't ride camels or walk, they do. If their way of life is so superior to ours then I must be missing something because I cannot see why they believe that.  Oh well, ignorance is bliss to those jokers.

I don't think you have ever been to a muslim country. Not all of them live in huts and  caves, and not all of them ride camels. Your racism is showing again ivan.

[ivanm]

Mornac,

Quit posting from Werold Net.

For example, this is a fucking lie:

Finally none of the founders were christian either, but this is what those like this man and mornac claim is our religious heritage.

IM2, if I  remember correctly the Pilgrims and others migrated to America to escape the rigors of the old Anglican church, which was apparently the official church of England. It follows that a number of the founding fathers were also religious and were apparently Christian.  I think freedom of religion clause in the constitution was probably the result of the relligious persecution these people and their ancestors experienced in the old country. I think it is fair to say that early America was predominately Christian in make up and therefore was regarded as having Christian underpinnings.

[JC]

But at the same time I cannot stress the importance of the fact that the words "under God" were not inserted into the pledge until the 1950's - a good century and half later than this country was founded, and that we were not established as a "christian" nation but a nation with freedom of ANY KIND of worship, which is something tha seems to be whitewashed over by todays christians who, if they have their way will forcefuck us all into worshipping One God, Their God, THEIR way. And that is just plain wrong because that is exactly what the founding fathers ran away from and tried to make damn sure would NOT happen in America. In other words-they wanted FREEDOM in the true sense of the word.

 That being the case, there should be NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with the "ground zero mosque" especially because it isn't on ground zero and it's not really a mosque. Why must republicans lie? That's what it is-This whole "ground zero mosque" argument is a lie. Flat out lie.

 Somewhere along the way , flat out lies, overblowing things and conflating became ok when it should be unacceptable.

[JC]

For the record I now think that all religion is a joke, because no matter what religion you belong to it's supposed to be the one true way and belief and all others are not right. Right? So how, can everyone else except for any one group or religion be all wrong? No matter what religion you are-you are right and everyone else is wrong. And if you think about it, this is the basis of many wars in the world-arguing over religion and "truth". There are always arguments between Catholics and Protestants. Jews and Christians of any denominations, Mornac has a struggle within the Catholic church between (Non and also Pro) Novus Ordo...Jews have their own inner struggles between orthodox and non. Muslims have many divisions Sunni Sharia Wahabi? Who is to say and how can any one religion ever be right? and then the rest all wrong? Religion is a joke. plain and simple. There is no one truth other than there is no one truth..