Could God be an Extra-Terrestrial?

[Velleity]

Another thing I have been thinking about recently is how we, as human beings, can be in the service to others, in some way, rather than taking from others, giving...rather than being jealous of others, being bestowing, and rather than being belittling of others, finding a way to speak one's own mind without abusing others...I know this sounds strange, but I feel that one's true merit is in how one relates to others in this world...ultimately.

That's Judaism, Luce. That's it. That's #1

Oh, thanks for this response, because I have been thinking a lot about what ultimately connects Christians who follow Christ and Jewish believers...and these are at heart some of the basic principles Christ taught...this is why THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT and the passages which follow are so important. Remember, Jesus first came as a messenger for the Jewish people. His gentile following was perhaps ordained to be, but his first audience was Jewish like himself...

The main difference between Christians and Jews, IMHO, is that Christians believe in the Golden Rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto you) while Jews believe that God put a little bit of Himself in every man's heart, and therefore serving ones fellow man is serving God.

There is a real difference in these two propositions.

I don't see such a huge difference.   One equates more to how one relates to more immediate family and surroundings whereas the other relates more to dealing with other humans in general...but if God had the sense of the "golden rule" and put a bit of himself in everyone, then it goes without saying.  It is a part of the nature of all humans.  Even the ability to understand it when it is presented/(indoctrinated?).

Not all people are always confined to one "belief" or another.  These are matters which weigh only as much as they are practiced in life anyway.  If people practiced them a lot...there would be no crime.  So they are both more ideas for life rather than constant realities.  And they are both promote the expedience of lifes journey toward salvation.

It's a huge difference, Luce. It's certainly not irreconcilable, but it's still a major difference although it's not so easy to put into a reasonable number of words.

I'm not saying that one is better than the other, and I'm also not saying that anyone is confined to one belief or another. It's just that the two approaches are quite different even if it doesn't seem to be so on the surface.

Personally, I still don't see any room for "Satan". There can be no power to rival God. Satan and Hell make no sense to me whatsoever. In fact the idea seems to me to be rather infantile and medieval--like the notion that the sun has to revolve around the earth.

Good and evil aren't so easily identified or distinguished. What's good to you may be evil to me and visa versa. For example, you seem to find much good in the antebellum South. I, on the other hand, believe that slavery was pretty damn close to being pure evil and the rationalization for slavery being perhaps even closer than slavery itself. <shrug>

[Michael]

Satan was not a concept, he was just a guy who was a victim of his own family's incestual history.  He was intelligent, but also genetically insane and influenced people the wrong way.  His personal convictions were warped.   They were more about pride and competition rather than honor and human compassion.

Now, if a little bit of Satan were NOT also in humankind....this continent would likely still be the Apache Nation.   

[Velleity]

Satan was not a concept, he was just a guy who was a victim of his own family's incestual history.  He was intelligent, but also genetically insane and influenced people the wrong way.  His personal convictions were warped.   They were more about pride and competition rather than honor and human compassion.

Now, if a little bit of Satan were NOT also in humankind....this continent would likely still be the Apache Nation.   

You do understand that I accept none of this. Right?

[Michael]

Satan was not a concept, he was just a guy who was a victim of his own family's incestual history.  He was intelligent, but also genetically insane and influenced people the wrong way.  His personal convictions were warped.   They were more about pride and competition rather than honor and human compassion.

Now, if a little bit of Satan were NOT also in humankind....this continent would likely still be the Apache Nation.   

You do understand that I accept none of this. Right?

The information comes from the highest of historical religious authority.

The last line is just conjecture.  But fairly accurate anyway. 

[Velleity]

Satan was not a concept, he was just a guy who was a victim of his own family's incestual history.  He was intelligent, but also genetically insane and influenced people the wrong way.  His personal convictions were warped.   They were more about pride and competition rather than honor and human compassion.

Now, if a little bit of Satan were NOT also in humankind....this continent would likely still be the Apache Nation.   

You do understand that I accept none of this. Right?

The information comes from the highest of historical religious authority.

The last line is just conjecture.  But fairly accurate anyway. 

You know, I've run into a few martial artist types who have claimed to have a direct pipeline. One fellow claimed that he had to let the higher authority see him from time to time. It calmed the higher authority down to know he was there.

Another fellow's followers claimed he was able to disperse clouds with his fingers. They got really, really mad at me when I told them that I thought they were a cult. That just confirmed my suspicion.

I don't recognize anyone who makes such claims. I don't believe God has ever revealed Herself to any human being in any tangible way. I don't think that's what God is about.

[lucy]

Not even Moses???

or Abraham?

[Velleity]

Not even Moses???

or Abraham?

Do you have any evidence that either Moses or Abraham ever really existed?

Of course you don't seem to understand my argument. I don't think it matters either way whether they really existed.

Also life was very different back then. In ancient China, for example, life was much more difficult. Devoting one's life to the service Shaolin Temple wasn't such a sacrifice. Drinking yesteryears Kool-Aid eased real hardships. Today, I think, asking someone to give up their life to follow your cause is much more of a fraudulent misrepresentation.

I'm not sure either Moses or Abraham did that though.

[Michael]

Satan was not a concept, he was just a guy who was a victim of his own family's incestual history.  He was intelligent, but also genetically insane and influenced people the wrong way.  His personal convictions were warped.   They were more about pride and competition rather than honor and human compassion.

Now, if a little bit of Satan were NOT also in humankind....this continent would likely still be the Apache Nation.   

You do understand that I accept none of this. Right?

The information comes from the highest of historical religious authority.

The last line is just conjecture.  But fairly accurate anyway. 

You know, I've run into a few martial artist types who have claimed to have a direct pipeline. One fellow claimed that he had to let the higher authority see him from time to time. It calmed the higher authority down to know he was there.

Another fellow's followers claimed he was able to disperse clouds with his fingers. They got really, really mad at me when I told them that I thought they were a cult. That just confirmed my suspicion.

I don't recognize anyone who makes such claims. I don't believe God has ever revealed Herself to any human being in any tangible way. I don't think that's what God is about.

People make claims every day.  Some of them are legit and some are not.  But I personally don't entirely discount or entirely believe any claim unless I have absolute verification that it is true or false.   

Just like some people are the same sex or the same age or have the same birth sign or the same personality...some people indeed have a closer spiritual link with God or Jesus or other specific religious figures.   A person can be born into similar experiences and/or have similar personalities which relate to the specifics of another.  So they can have a more natural understanding.

However, in my case, I have personally known and visited with the descendents of biblical writers/characters/Wise Men/etc.   I don't claim expertise in rocket science...any more than an Eskimo would claim jungle savy.   But when it comes to religion...I'm the one who knows. 

[Velleity]

Satan was not a concept, he was just a guy who was a victim of his own family's incestual history.  He was intelligent, but also genetically insane and influenced people the wrong way.  His personal convictions were warped.   They were more about pride and competition rather than honor and human compassion.

Now, if a little bit of Satan were NOT also in humankind....this continent would likely still be the Apache Nation.   

You do understand that I accept none of this. Right?

The information comes from the highest of historical religious authority.

The last line is just conjecture.  But fairly accurate anyway. 

You know, I've run into a few martial artist types who have claimed to have a direct pipeline. One fellow claimed that he had to let the higher authority see him from time to time. It calmed the higher authority down to know he was there.

Another fellow's followers claimed he was able to disperse clouds with his fingers. They got really, really mad at me when I told them that I thought they were a cult. That just confirmed my suspicion.

I don't recognize anyone who makes such claims. I don't believe God has ever revealed Herself to any human being in any tangible way. I don't think that's what God is about.

People make claims every day.  Some of them are legit and some are not.  But I personally don't entirely discount or entirely believe any claim unless I have absolute verification that it is true or false.   

Just like some people are the same sex or the same age or have the same birth sign or the same personality...some people indeed have a closer spiritual link with God or Jesus or other specific religious figures.   A person can be born into similar experiences and/or have similar personalities which relate to the specifics of another.  So they can have a more natural understanding.

However, in my case, I have personally known and visited with the descendents of biblical writers/characters/Wise Men/etc.   I don't claim expertise in rocket science...any more than an Eskimo would claim jungle savy.   But when it comes to religion...I'm the one who knows. 

I personally entirely discount anyone who claims to absolutely know the unknowable.

[Michael]

Satan was not a concept, he was just a guy who was a victim of his own family's incestual history.  He was intelligent, but also genetically insane and influenced people the wrong way.  His personal convictions were warped.   They were more about pride and competition rather than honor and human compassion.

Now, if a little bit of Satan were NOT also in humankind....this continent would likely still be the Apache Nation.   

You do understand that I accept none of this. Right?

The information comes from the highest of historical religious authority.

The last line is just conjecture.  But fairly accurate anyway. 

You know, I've run into a few martial artist types who have claimed to have a direct pipeline. One fellow claimed that he had to let the higher authority see him from time to time. It calmed the higher authority down to know he was there.

Another fellow's followers claimed he was able to disperse clouds with his fingers. They got really, really mad at me when I told them that I thought they were a cult. That just confirmed my suspicion.

I don't recognize anyone who makes such claims. I don't believe God has ever revealed Herself to any human being in any tangible way. I don't think that's what God is about.

People make claims every day.  Some of them are legit and some are not.  But I personally don't entirely discount or entirely believe any claim unless I have absolute verification that it is true or false.   

Just like some people are the same sex or the same age or have the same birth sign or the same personality...some people indeed have a closer spiritual link with God or Jesus or other specific religious figures.   A person can be born into similar experiences and/or have similar personalities which relate to the specifics of another.  So they can have a more natural understanding.

However, in my case, I have personally known and visited with the descendents of biblical writers/characters/Wise Men/etc.   I don't claim expertise in rocket science...any more than an Eskimo would claim jungle savy.   But when it comes to religion...I'm the one who knows. 

I personally entirely discount anyone who claims to absolutely know the unknowable.

You're not going to cruxify my are you?   Should I speak in parables instead of facts, like Jesus did? 

To me, the only things that are unknowable are things which don't exist.

[Velleity]

Satan was not a concept, he was just a guy who was a victim of his own family's incestual history.  He was intelligent, but also genetically insane and influenced people the wrong way.  His personal convictions were warped.   They were more about pride and competition rather than honor and human compassion.

Now, if a little bit of Satan were NOT also in humankind....this continent would likely still be the Apache Nation.   

You do understand that I accept none of this. Right?

The information comes from the highest of historical religious authority.

The last line is just conjecture.  But fairly accurate anyway. 

You know, I've run into a few martial artist types who have claimed to have a direct pipeline. One fellow claimed that he had to let the higher authority see him from time to time. It calmed the higher authority down to know he was there.

Another fellow's followers claimed he was able to disperse clouds with his fingers. They got really, really mad at me when I told them that I thought they were a cult. That just confirmed my suspicion.

I don't recognize anyone who makes such claims. I don't believe God has ever revealed Herself to any human being in any tangible way. I don't think that's what God is about.

People make claims every day.  Some of them are legit and some are not.  But I personally don't entirely discount or entirely believe any claim unless I have absolute verification that it is true or false.   

Just like some people are the same sex or the same age or have the same birth sign or the same personality...some people indeed have a closer spiritual link with God or Jesus or other specific religious figures.   A person can be born into similar experiences and/or have similar personalities which relate to the specifics of another.  So they can have a more natural understanding.

However, in my case, I have personally known and visited with the descendents of biblical writers/characters/Wise Men/etc.   I don't claim expertise in rocket science...any more than an Eskimo would claim jungle savy.   But when it comes to religion...I'm the one who knows. 

I personally entirely discount anyone who claims to absolutely know the unknowable.

You're not going to cruxify my are you?   Should I speak in parables instead of facts, like Jesus did? 

To me, the only things that are unknowable are things which don't exist.

I accept you for what you are Arch. Your entitled to your beliefs and unlike certain others who posted here I have no need to disrespect you.

You might note that I was expressing my opinion, and talking about myself.

Of course I could be wrong about the unknowable, but it's been my experience that the realm of the unknowable is identical to the realm of charlatans.

[Michael]

Satan was not a concept, he was just a guy who was a victim of his own family's incestual history.  He was intelligent, but also genetically insane and influenced people the wrong way.  His personal convictions were warped.   They were more about pride and competition rather than honor and human compassion.

Now, if a little bit of Satan were NOT also in humankind....this continent would likely still be the Apache Nation.   

You do understand that I accept none of this. Right?

The information comes from the highest of historical religious authority.

The last line is just conjecture.  But fairly accurate anyway. 

You know, I've run into a few martial artist types who have claimed to have a direct pipeline. One fellow claimed that he had to let the higher authority see him from time to time. It calmed the higher authority down to know he was there.

Another fellow's followers claimed he was able to disperse clouds with his fingers. They got really, really mad at me when I told them that I thought they were a cult. That just confirmed my suspicion.

I don't recognize anyone who makes such claims. I don't believe God has ever revealed Herself to any human being in any tangible way. I don't think that's what God is about.

People make claims every day.  Some of them are legit and some are not.  But I personally don't entirely discount or entirely believe any claim unless I have absolute verification that it is true or false.   

Just like some people are the same sex or the same age or have the same birth sign or the same personality...some people indeed have a closer spiritual link with God or Jesus or other specific religious figures.   A person can be born into similar experiences and/or have similar personalities which relate to the specifics of another.  So they can have a more natural understanding.

However, in my case, I have personally known and visited with the descendents of biblical writers/characters/Wise Men/etc.   I don't claim expertise in rocket science...any more than an Eskimo would claim jungle savy.   But when it comes to religion...I'm the one who knows. 

I personally entirely discount anyone who claims to absolutely know the unknowable.

You're not going to cruxify my are you?   Should I speak in parables instead of facts, like Jesus did? 

To me, the only things that are unknowable are things which don't exist.

I accept you for what you are Arch. Your entitled to your beliefs and unlike certain others who posted here I have no need to disrespect you.

You might note that I was expressing my opinion, and talking about myself.

Of course I could be wrong about the unknowable, but it's been my experience that the realm of the unknowable is identical to the realm of charlatans.

It has not been my intention that you think my debates with you are any less than congenial. 

[Velleity]

Satan was not a concept, he was just a guy who was a victim of his own family's incestual history.  He was intelligent, but also genetically insane and influenced people the wrong way.  His personal convictions were warped.   They were more about pride and competition rather than honor and human compassion.

Now, if a little bit of Satan were NOT also in humankind....this continent would likely still be the Apache Nation.   

You do understand that I accept none of this. Right?

The information comes from the highest of historical religious authority.

The last line is just conjecture.  But fairly accurate anyway. 

You know, I've run into a few martial artist types who have claimed to have a direct pipeline. One fellow claimed that he had to let the higher authority see him from time to time. It calmed the higher authority down to know he was there.

Another fellow's followers claimed he was able to disperse clouds with his fingers. They got really, really mad at me when I told them that I thought they were a cult. That just confirmed my suspicion.

I don't recognize anyone who makes such claims. I don't believe God has ever revealed Herself to any human being in any tangible way. I don't think that's what God is about.

People make claims every day.  Some of them are legit and some are not.  But I personally don't entirely discount or entirely believe any claim unless I have absolute verification that it is true or false.   

Just like some people are the same sex or the same age or have the same birth sign or the same personality...some people indeed have a closer spiritual link with God or Jesus or other specific religious figures.   A person can be born into similar experiences and/or have similar personalities which relate to the specifics of another.  So they can have a more natural understanding.

However, in my case, I have personally known and visited with the descendents of biblical writers/characters/Wise Men/etc.   I don't claim expertise in rocket science...any more than an Eskimo would claim jungle savy.   But when it comes to religion...I'm the one who knows. 

I personally entirely discount anyone who claims to absolutely know the unknowable.

You're not going to cruxify my are you?   Should I speak in parables instead of facts, like Jesus did? 

To me, the only things that are unknowable are things which don't exist.

I accept you for what you are Arch. Your entitled to your beliefs and unlike certain others who posted here I have no need to disrespect you.

You might note that I was expressing my opinion, and talking about myself.

Of course I could be wrong about the unknowable, but it's been my experience that the realm of the unknowable is identical to the realm of charlatans.

It has not been my intention that you think my debates with you are any less than congenial. 

Glad to hear it Arch. 

I am I because I am I; you are you because you are you.

[Case_Closed]

God is that "thing" each of us imagine/believe Him/Her/It to be.

[johnhp]

God is that "thing" each of us imagine/believe Him/Her/It to be.

Wow.  How many hits off the crack pipe before you had that revelation?