THIS is how a debate is done!

[JC]

So are you hinting that the KJV is the less incredible? Like the tabloid/nat.enquirer version? How many "versions" are there and how do we  decide which tabloid to choose from? Enquiring minds want to know?

[johnhp]

Well, it is a translation mired in the time in which it was born.  All translations of course bear such birth marks.  More modern translations are more knowledgeable about the languages used, have more available manuscripts, etc.

One of the things few Christians know or understand or even care about when it comes to the Bible is that there are no complete "autograph" texts (texts done in the hand of the original author).  There are also no pristine manuscripts that preserve these last.  In fact, with the exception of the smallest parts, almost every manuscript diverges from others at certain points.

Look at the books of the Tanakh, what Christians refer to as the Old Testament.  The oldest manuscripts for these are from the Qumran caves (Dead Sea Scrolls).  Of these scrolls the earliest manuscript dates from about 150 BCE (about a century and a half before the birth of Jesus).  Of course, the books of the Tanakh were written long before that.  The same is true with the Septuagint (a Greek version of the Tanakh).  It was composed between 300 and 100 BCE, yet the oldest complete manuscripts we have are from 300 CE (some 400 years after its completetion; although fragments exist from the period of composition).

It is similar with the New Testament.  The earliest manuscripts we have are from the second century.  There are two of them.  Manuscripts disagree on interesting points.  For instance, some manuscripts of Revelation have the number of the beast as 666 and others as 616 (Somebody better put in a call to Iron Maiden).


 

[Velleity]

No vel, we all are revealed the truth. I am no more the benefactor of any revealed truth than you are. I simply state events based upon occurrences happening right now that were predicted and written in the bible long before the events came to pass.

I'd be a fool to claim what you said about me. I mean you claim to have some revelation of truth also vel. You use science as basis for your revelations. For example, the singularity.

I am in awe of nature, IM, but I don't worship nature and my awe is not based on any kind of faith and I don't take any leaps of faith.

I don't see how you can equate an appreciation of nature with faith in religious beliefs.

[Mornac]

PBS does a good job too.

--They don’t.

Maybe the capitalist for profit model isn't always the best one?

--Of course not. Look how many people get killed in this country alone every year at the greedy hands of Planned Parenthood.

Maybe you should put a little thought into how a private school system might work without having to compete with public schools.

 
--I have and it’s idyllic. Just think of thousands of private schools competing for consumer dollars by offering the best education possible at the most reasonable price – and consumers with their pockets loaded with cash that they aren’t shoveling into worthless government school systems with worthless union idiots not doing the job that they’re overpaid for. Alas, the liberals will never allow it.

[IM2]

Nothing like 4 days of seminars, but at least the organization paid for it.

vel,

I am in awe of nature, IM, but I don't worship nature and my awe is not based on any kind of faith and I don't take any leaps of faith.

I don't see how you can equate an appreciation of nature with faith in religious beliefs.  

But you do worship nature vel. For example do you actively work to poison the air and water? God says that in order to meet his requirements that you live  by his rules. Worship as we understand it is a man made construct. Al Capone "worshipped" God every sunday, but I don't think he lived by his rules.

Your awe of nature is faith based given that you do have faith that you can breath air and live, and that the air will continue being around every day for as long as you live.

God is nature vel.  

Dagon,

The King James version is not the only version I have read.  I also think we need to understand that we must humble ourselves enough to realize that there is a greater power that exists. Instead of doing this, we read and read and study, then come to a conclusion that we find based upon what we have studied, yet there is lot of things that none of us have studied as it pertains to the creation of humanity, because those who are at the high levels studying this, do not wish to reveal the information due to the fact that it damages their egos and what they want to push on us as a belief.

If you have taken the time to study and discredit the writings in the bible because of politics of the time, then certainly you need to realize that the same politics dominate science as it pertains to creation or the existence of God.

So in short scientific findings are skewed based upon the personal belief of the scientist.  At this moment in time, we have seen dramatic changes in weather patterns worldwide and increases in the number and intensity of storms. These things were written about as a sign of the end of days as we know them. We all have a choice, we can choose to believe and change ourselves in order to prepare for the return of God, or we can choose to discount these making bogus claims that such weather changes have happened before and not realize what time it really is.

We may not see it, but in time the entire earth will be physically restructured, and when that happens, understand that Gods return is not far away. That is written, and it’s written in almost every version of any bible that has ever been published.