A new day dawning

[IM2]

Space Cadet,

You have the right to believe as you desire, but there is too much sicentific evidence of the existence of God for me to deny it. Science is a man made attempt to try explaining what man cannot comprehend. There have been scientists who have studied creation and have seen evidence that something greater than we understand had to do it, and then proclaimed that even though they have seen this evidence they refuse to accept that it is real. So you cannot tell me that there is no divine intervention because you do not, and I will say it again you do not, have concrete and conclusive evidence that there is no such thing.

Its funny how certain you people are who claim there is no god.   

[SpaceCadet]

You have the right to believe as you desire, ...

As do you.

Its funny how certain you people are who claim there is no god.   

As funny as those who claim there is?

[IM2]

SC,

All science does for me is show the existence of a higher power. Obviously it does not for you and that's cool, i have no problem with  that because I do not want to be percieved as a dumb ass bible thumping idiot. I have the same problems with those bible thumping idiots as you do. World events predicted in the bible are coming to pass SC, that's all I am trying to say.

Just watch.

[SpaceCadet]

SC,

All science does for me is show the existence of a higher power. Obviously it does not for you and that's cool, i have no problem with  that because I do not want to be percieved as a dumb ass bible thumping idiot. I have the same problems with those bible thumping idiots as you do. World events predicted in the bible are coming to pass SC, that's all I am trying to say.

Just watch.

That's fine.  It just seemed like a good opportunity to reflect a little of your own bias back at you, so that you could see it.

[dagon]

SC,

All science does for me is show the existence of a higher power. Obviously it does not for you and that's cool, i have no problem with  that because I do not want to be percieved as a dumb ass bible thumping idiot. I have the same problems with those bible thumping idiots as you do. World events predicted in the bible are coming to pass SC, that's all I am trying to say.

Just watch.

here we go again.  all of existence has shown me that is no higher power; no rhyme or reason for any of this  it's a mystery built on a conundrum.  NO ONE has the answers for the mysteries of the universe but i hope we will continue to strive to figure them out.

you say you reject a lot of the teachings of the Bible?  that's cool, so do I BUT in terms of Jesus, that's all you've got; the teachings of the euro-centric version of Jesus.  that's it!

I believe in spirituality, whatever that's worth but i won't cotton to a "SAVIOR".  that's manipulative hooey.  the "end times" have been prophesied for millennia.   1956, 1984, 2001.  NONE of it happened.  because it's nonsense!

there are a plethora of mysteries left for us to explore but they don't involve "end-time" scenario's or a reliance on biblical fairy tales.  JMUO!

peace

[SpaceCadet]

There is an "end time", but nothing like what is predicted by religions.  I doubt the bible was talking about an event 4.5 billion years from now.  Of course, there could always be a gamma-ray burst or a large meteor strike.

[Mornac]

There is an "end time"

--Meaning that time will come to an end?

[SpaceCadet]

--Meaning that time will come to an end?

Possibly, but if so that is waaayyy even further in the future, when the entire universe would contract back to its original starting point.  What I was referring to was simply the end of the Earth, or the possible earlier end to it as we know it.

[ivanm]

--Meaning that time will come to an end?

What parameters must be present for "time" to exist?

[SpaceCadet]

What parameters must be present for "time" to exist?

I'm not sure I can answer that easily.  Some aspects of modern science can only be understood through mathematics, and because our notion of "common sense" is derived from our everyday experience, we have no mental framework to be able to understand many things in an intuitive sense.

However, this concept is not entirely one of those.  Put very simply, time and space are merely dimensions of what is known as "space-time".  That's a concept that is pretty well accepted by many people by now.  If space-time ceases to exist, then time ceases to exist.  And in a "Big Crunch", space-time would cease to exist.

[Mornac]

Put very simply, time and space are merely dimensions of what is known as "space-time".  That's a concept that is pretty well accepted by many people by now.

--Does a concept gain any validity by becoming “pretty well accepted by many people”, or does it remain as theoretical as any other  “concept that is pretty well accepted by many people”?

[johnhp]

There is an "end time", but nothing like what is predicted by religions.

I doubt the bible was talking about an event 4.5 billion years from now. 

i think we should be a little more clear about what religions mean by the end of time.  For the most part, Christianity included, the classical formulations of the end time, were reflections on the cataclysms of the day and a hope that divine intervention, through whatever means, would upset that applecart.  The so-called prophesies refer to events that have happened.  The Book of Daniel, for instance, refers to the period of time of the Babylonian captivity but was written as a response to the crisis caused by Antiochus IV.

In Matthew 24, Jesus discusses the destruction of the Temple.  In point of fact, Matthew was probably written and redacted between 60-90 CE.  It would be like me predicting the assassination of Kennedy in 1972.  When Matthew and John were writing their stories of the destruction of the Temple, they were discussing an event that had occurred and relating it to an event the church was experiencing as the Gospel was in the process of being written and redacted, the institutional emergence of Christianity as a religion distinct from, rather than as a sect of, Judaism.


There are similar things in other religions.  The so-called Mayan calendar turns out to be the end of a cycle of time and beginning of another cycle, etc.

[johnhp]

--Does a concept gain any validity by becoming “pretty well accepted by many people”, or does it remain as theoretical as any other  “concept that is pretty well accepted by many people”?

Classic beginning move of loons who want to introduce the god of the gaps argument, as if there were no difference between theory, hypothesis and random speculation.


Mornac has just introduced the

[ivanm]

--Does a concept gain any validity by becoming “pretty well accepted by many people”, or does it remain as theoretical as any other  “concept that is pretty well accepted by many people”?

As with your religious beliefs?   

[ivanm]

I'm not sure I can answer that easily.  Some aspects of modern science can only be understood through mathematics, and because our notion of "common sense" is derived from our everyday experience, we have no mental framework to be able to understand many things in an intuitive sense.

However, this concept is not entirely one of those.  Put very simply, time and space are merely dimensions of what is known as "space-time".  That's a concept that is pretty well accepted by many people by now.  If space-time ceases to exist, then time ceases to exist.  And in a "Big Crunch", space-time would cease to exist.

Perhaps it would help to understand what "time" is used for.  I really don't have a definitive answer to the question I
posed to you in an earlier post but it seems that we humans use "time" to record or place the happening or status of an event relative to some other happening or status.  For example, it takes "time" for an ice cube to melt and become water, and the year 1990 chronologically was some 20 years ago relative to the present.

Earthlings seem to mark or measure the time of day relative to the rotation of the earth, which is appro. once every 24 hours per revolution, and mark or measure the passage of days by the position of the earth relative to the sun.  It takes one year or appro. 365.25 days for the earth to revolve around the sun in its orbit.

So if our system of time were to cease to exist, or stand still, so to speak, then that could mean that the earth has stopped rotating about its axis or has stopped revolving around the sun in its orbit.  If either or both of these celestial activities were to cease I assume that plant and animal life on earth would soon cease because of the intense heat and radiation absobed by the half of the globe that faced the sun.

That is my country boy common sense view of what time means to people.  And I think that even a catastrophic event such as a global nuclear war or a hit by another heavenly body would not stop "time" on earth as long as the earth continued to rotate about its axis and continued to revolve about the sun in its orbit. In other words, our presence or lack of it here on earth would not change the parameters that permit our system of "time" to exist.