When was Abraham born and in what country?

[ivanm]

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[Velleity]

I have found bits of information about the birth of Abraham and his birthplace.  

What you have not found and will never find is a shred of objective, direct evidence. For all you know Abraham is fiction.

[Velleity]

No real evidence. Zero. None.

[Velleity]

Of course there's another possibility.

[johnhp]

I have found bits of information about the birth of Abraham and his birthplace.  The first excerpt comes from URL

Put your head down and plow forward.  Don't you understand what the word folklore means?

[johnhp]

It appears that there were people living there, as indicated by the reported Egyptian military campaigns into the area. The following excerept is from a wikipedia article on Canaan.

What you fail to understand is that the people who would become the Israelites were formed largely by groups that left the cities as the cities were in decline and formed smaller encampments.  They were also joined by groups like the Shasu.

You should really rely on the best info available rather than what you find on the net.

[Velleity]

Let's hear it then.

How do you come to claim that you're not a fundamentalist when you can't even recognize the possibility, or even probability, that the stories in the Bible are not literally true?

[Velleity]

My findings are apparently sufficient to promote discussion, which was what I intended to do.

But what you're lacking in your "findings" is an archeological record. For all you know you could be reading the three thousand year old equivalent of The Hobbit and various and sundry century old book reviews.

[lucy]

The ramifications for Israel would be interesting should everyone decide that the Bible is merely folklore, then, no? The justification for the Jewish nation, for one thing. I happen to believe that Abraham did indeed exist. But, hey/ Who knows, right?

[johnhp]

It must be real easy for you to be an asshole.  No effort required, no brains needed, just be yourself.

ivan, if you would take a second to think seriously about what others posted before you hit that post button, you would probably not be treated so poorly.

[johnhp]

My findings are apparently sufficient to promote discussion, which was what I intended to do. Would you like to contribute or would you prefer to show your obstinate ass?

Your findings, or more properly, other people's leavings, are not, largely, historical analyses.  Where they are, as i have pointed out, they are dated.  What more am i to say other than you are looking for biography, for history, of a figure that is folkloric rather than historical?

It is like this: Steve Rogers was born on July 4, 1917 on the lower east side of Manhattan.  Is that meaningful?  Does it impart actual historical knowledge?  No, because Steve Rogers, Captain America, is a fictional character and the time of his birth is meaningless from an historical standpoint.

How does your comment above relate to my findings about Abrahams birth date and birth place, and his migration into Canaan from the north?  Try and stay on topic.  If you prefer to start your own thread then by all means do it. 

i am not sure how to say to you yet again that you are looking for the biography and history of a folkloric character.  Usually, when someone points out that you are looking for history in folklore, the person doing that rethinks their position instead of plowing on.

[johnhp]

The ramifications for Israel would be interesting should everyone decide that the Bible is merely folklore, then, no? The justification for the Jewish nation, for one thing. I happen to believe that Abraham did indeed exist. But, hey/ Who knows, right?

My statements about the history of the people who became the Israelites are based on the findings of archaeologists, who live and work in Israel and their findings are generally accepted.

Who knows?  Actually, i suppose, the question is who loves not to know?

[johnhp]

Much of the ancient writings relating to early Israel and to the early Jews probably were derived from folklore to a certain extent.  But without additional evidence that is about all we got going unless John wants to stop playing games and enlighten us.

It just amazes me how his sources are more correct that the sum of the sources from all those who have done research on the matter.  His sources came from somewhere too, did they not?  Oh my, do you suppose he has a hotline to Jehovah? 

Actually, you are not citing current research on the matter.  Look at this article from one of the most conservative archaeological magazines.  This article was written for the lay person not the specialist, so you may understand it.  It also addresses the issue you brought up of the Habiru.

Here is the article.

[Velleity]

So what is the real basis for being the "chosen people"?

Being the chosen people isn't a problem. Your inability to comprehend the real meaning of the concept and your willingness to use your own distortion to fuel your hate is the problem.

[Velleity]

The ramifications for Israel . . .

Would be nothing. Israel's existence is not based on the Bible and this idea is rather silly.