Israelis quit Gaza after deadly clash

[ivanm]

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Whatsa matter bullies, didn't the Gazans lie down and let you bulldoze them?
 
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36063328/displaymode/1176/rstry/36063301/
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2 IDF soldiers, at least 2 Palestinians die in fighting
 
updated 5:41 a.m. CT, Sat., March. 27, 2010
GAZA - Israeli troops and tanks left the Gaza Strip on Saturday, witnesses said, ending an incursion into the Hamas-ruled enclave made after the bloodiest clash in 14 months killed two soldiers and at least two Palestinians.

The violence underscored deadlock in U.S.-mediated talks between Israel and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, whose peace strategy has been sapped by Hamas hostility along with continued Israeli settlement construction on occupied land.

The impasse had triggered sporadic rocket attacks this month from Gaza which drew Israeli airstrikes. On Friday, Palestinians ambushed soldiers who, the army said, had crossed the border to dismantle a mine. Two infantrymen were killed and two wounded.

The skirmish -- in which the Israelis said they killed two Palestinian gunmen -- was the fiercest since the three-week Gaza war of early 2009. Some 1,400 Palestinians, mainly civilians, and 13 Israelis, mainly troops, died in that conflict.

As the Israeli force left eastern Khan Younis, the site of Friday's fighting, Gazan medical officials came in to search for casualties. They said they knew of a 23-year-old man who had been killed and at least five Palestinian civilians wounded.

Ramifications for Hamas
Hamas, having largely held fire since, announced that its men took part in the border clash, calling it self-defense. That drew veiled threats of escalation from Israel.

"We have been used to seeing breakaway (Palestinian) groups doing the firing, and Hamas trying to calm things down. Possibly it is loosening its grip, for all sorts of reasons," Defense Minister Ehud Barak told Israeli television on Friday.

"Should that indeed prove to be the case, then there will also be ramifications for Hamas," he said, but added: "We have no interest in returning the region to what was in the past."

Israel captured Gaza, along with the West Bank and East Jerusalem, in a 1967 war. It withdrew unilaterally from Gaza in 2005 but has expanded Jewish settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Palestinians want a state in all the territories.

Resisting U.S. pressure in what analysts called a bruising encounter with President Barack Obama in Washington this week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would not stop building in West Bank areas it annexed to East Jerusalem.

No breakthroughs
Netanyahu vowed to find a way out of the face-off, but a Friday meeting of his senior cabinet convened to discuss confidence-building measures ended with no breakthroughs.

"Israeli construction policy in Jerusalem has remained the same for 42 years and isn't changing," said spokesman Nir Hefez.

Four Palestinians have died in West Bank clashes with Israeli forces this month. Obama wants Israel to halt settlement in East Jerusalem, an issue that created new friction when a plan to build 1,600 more housing units was published as U.S. Vice President Joe Biden visited to urge talks.

But Friday's cabinet meeting adjourned without decisions.

"The prime minister set further discussion in the forum for the coming days, as well as continued contacts with the U.S. administration in order to reach an agreed path for getting the diplomatic process moving," his aide Hefez said.

[Hollybaere]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/s3Oz8M_FnV4&amp;rel=0&amp;color1=0x234900&amp;color2=0x4e9e00&amp;hl=en_US&amp;feature=player_embedded&amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/s3Oz8M_FnV4&amp;rel=0&amp;color1=0x234900&amp;color2=0x4e9e00&amp;hl=en_US&amp;feature=player_embedded&amp;fs=1</a>

The Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 was amended by the Symington Amendment (Section 669 of the FAA) in 1976. It bans U.S. economic, and military assistance, and export credits to countries that deliver or receive, acquire or transfer nuclear enrichment technology when they do not comply with IAEA regulations and inspections. This provision, as amended, is now also contained in Section 101 of the Arms Export Control Act (AECA).

The Glenn Amendment (Section 670) was later adopted in 1977, and provided the same sanctions against countries that acquire or transfer nuclear reprocessing technology or explode or transfer a nuclear device. This provision, as amended, is now contained in Section 102 of the Arms Export Control Act (AECA).

The instant President Obama admits that he knows Israel has nuclear weapons, he is confessing that every single cent looted from the American taxpayers and given to Israel by the US government since 1976 is a criminal fraud and theft from the American people.

[ivanm]

In fairness to Obama, this has been going on long before he came along.  Let us suppose that a lot of aid is being funneled to Israel in the name of humanitarian or economic assistance.  It doesn't take a mental giant to see that if we can provide say 10 billion in one form of aid then that frees up 10 billion of Isreal's own money to spend on armaments and aggression.

How about this?  For every dollar we give to Israel we give a like amount to the Islamic people who live in that area, Palestinians, Lebanese, Jordanese, and Syrians.  Maybe that should drive home the ignorance of supporting a country's aggression against its neighbors. 

[Velleity]

It doesn't take a mental giant to see that if we can provide say 10 billion in one form of aid then that frees up 10 billion of Isreal's own money to spend on armaments and aggression.

Since you see it and you're far from being "a mental giant" it would seem that you prove your own assertion regarding your what you can and cannot see. As for the efficacy of the underlying assertion about what $10 billion allows Israel to do or not do, well, that's obviously a different story.

Actually it doesn't work like that but you're not really interested in the way it actually works any more than you're interested in gaining any real insight into Jews or understanding what really constitutes "socialism." You don't just get $10 billion in aid and then have $10 billion to spend elsewhere. In fact this is pathetic and a sign of severe stupidity. Perhaps you gleaned your "understanding of economics" from the Bible too?

The Israeli economy is dynamic and very successful--far more successful than any other in the region. Do you think ten billion dollars is spit compared to the oil revenues of Kuwait or Saudi Arabia? What do you know about the economy of Egypt, Syria, or Jordan?

We all know the answer, ignorant bigot. You know absolutely nothing but that doesn't prevent you from spewing hateful rhetoric.

[dagon]

full disclosure:

i'm not down with israel's policies re the palestinians, the settlements in particular.

i used to work at fox news and netanyahu was an occasional guest.  i gotta tell you, that guy scared the hell out of me.  there was a palpable change in the atmosphere whenever he came on.  plus, those likud dudes he surrounded himself with were seriously no joke.

but as vell has pointed out, israel is a complex society.  they are not monolithic and contributors to some of their policies are history and geography.  imo,  they were fast-tracked as a nation to the detriment of relations with their neighbors;  they got too big, too rich and too fast.  but here we are. 

i think eventually (actually sooner than that)  the moderate impulses will prevail.  those saying that obama has been coddling israel have simply not been paying attention.  they are an ally and a nuclear power.  BUT, they are not a cruel and stupid people.  they are just young and want to ensure their survival like any other nation.  this causes them to make some mistakes;  who can say the U.S..  didn't make a bunch of mistakes in terms of it's treatment of indigenous people and underrepresented groups?

so far,  i have been pleased by obama's prudence AND strength in handling relations with the netanyahu regime.

peace

[Velleity]

i used to work at fox news and netanyahu was an occasional guest.  i gotta tell you, that guy scared the hell out of me.  there was a palpable change in the atmosphere whenever he came on.  plus, those likud dudes he surrounded himself with were seriously no joke.

No joke at all. I don't like Bibi any more than you do.

i think eventually (actually sooner than that)  the moderate impulses will prevail.

The non-moderate "Palestinians" don't want moderate Israeli impulses to prevail and have done a good job of making sure they don't.

BUT, they are not a cruel and stupid people.  they are just young and want to ensure their survival like any other nation.

And if anti-Semites like Holly had their way Israel would not survive.

 this causes them to make some mistakes;  

What mistakes are you referring to? Given their precarious position why do you think you can second guess them?

Not saying you're wrong, necessarily. However in their position what you view as a mistake may very well be for them a necessity.

[ivanm]

full disclosure:

i'm not down with israel's policies re the palestinians, the settlements in particular.

i used to work at fox news and netanyahu was an occasional guest.  i gotta tell you, that guy scared the hell out of me.  there was a palpable change in the atmosphere whenever he came on.  plus, those likud dudes he surrounded himself with were seriously no joke.

but as vell has pointed out, israel is a complex society.  they are not monolithic and contributors to some of their policies are history and geography.  imo,  they were fast-tracked as a nation to the detriment of relations with their neighbors;  they got too big, too rich and too fast.  but here we are.  

i think eventually (actually sooner than that)  the moderate impulses will prevail.  those saying that obama has been coddling israel have simply not been paying attention.  they are an ally and a nuclear power.  BUT, they are not a cruel and stupid people.  they are just young and want to ensure their survival like any other nation.  this causes them to make some mistakes;  who can say the U.S..  didn't make a bunch of mistakes in terms of it's treatment of indigenous people and underrepresented groups?

so far,  i have been pleased by obama's prudence AND strength in handling relations with the netanyahu regime.

peace

Me too dagon.  That is the only reason I voted for Obama, in hopes his foreign policy would not be so hawkish.  Don't take it much further or you too will be a bigot.  

Marx Junior has trouble handling the realities of the situation.

[Velleity]

Me too dagon.  That is the only reason I voted for Obama, in hopes his foreign policy would not be so hawkish.  Don't take it much further or you too will be a bigot.  

Marx Junior has trouble handling the realities of the situation.

You conflate two unrelated concepts. No one regards you as a bigot because of your foreign policy opinions.

Everyone regards you as a bigot because of your anti-Semitic and racist opinions.

Are you too stupid to see the difference, or is this just another facet of your hatefulness?

[ivanm]

You conflate two unrelated concepts. No one regards you as a bigot because of your foreign policy opinions.

Everyone regards you as a bigot because of your anti-Semitic and racist opinions.

Are you too stupid to see the difference, or is this just another facet of your hatefulness?

If you would keep your hand off the hate button then life might be more pleasant for you. The fact that I post articles about Israeli aggression from the MSM, which is controlled by Jews, does not make me an anti-Semite.

As to the black people, I judge them on an individual basis.  For example, dagon and MSP are nice to me and I am nice to them.  My neighbor and his brother are nice to me and I really enjoy their company.  Guess what bozo, it is their behavior that I see on the forum and not their skin, and the same goes for my black neighbors.  I don't even like to call them black or Negro but for a trouble monger like you those are words that ignite ill feeling.

The name of the game for you is to keep things stirred up and to keep people at each other's.
Except when it blows back into you face you start whining like a proverbial victim. 

As if you and johnhp and IM2 were "everyone"? A lot of the people down have the balls to speak out on the Jewish aggression in the ME and they are apparently not up on their history.  As to my reading the bible, at least I read it and at least God and Jehovah, which are one and the same being to me, are male gender IMO.  Where in the bible does it say that God and Jehova and Allah are female in gender? 

A bigot has unyielding opinions or outlooks, and that is not the case with me. At least I can see the
error of the Israeli ways where you refuse to even consider it.  So who is the bigot?  IMO the word or term anti-Semite is a derogatory and hateful label that jerks like you use when you are caught with your pants down.  It substitutes for facing the reality of the issue at hand but it doesn't make it go away.

[johnhp]

If you would keep your hand off the hate button then life might be more pleasant for you. The fact that I post articles about Israeli aggression from the MSM, which is controlled by Jews, does not make me an anti-Semite.

Like the man said...antisemitic attitudes.

A lot of the people down have the balls to speak out on the Jewish aggression in the ME and they are apparently not up on their history.  

i speak out on the aggression of the Israeli state.  To refer to that aggression as "Jewish" betrays, once more, your antisemitism and your woeful ignorance of history.

[Velleity]

If you would keep your hand off the hate button then life might be more pleasant for you.

What makes you think that pointing out the fact that you're a hateful bigot isn't pleasant for me? Of course I can always move your posts to the Recycle Bin.

Dumbass.

[ivanm]

Like the man said...antisemitic attitudes.





i speak out on the aggression of the Israeli state.  To refer to that aggression as "Jewish" betrays, once more, your antisemitism and your woeful ignorance of history.

You need to get a paraphrased version of the bible and read the OT. And if you cannot handle that then you have no business teaching school. The Israelis have a long long history of aggression.  If the aggression of the Israeli state is not Jewish then who is doing it, the Christians and the Muslims. That is like saying that Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't a serial killer.
 
What a dumb assed comment you have made, but it's not bad for an educated idiot. And I thought all the morons except Vel went to WDC.

[Velleity]

You need to get a paraphrased version of the bible and read the OT. And if you cannot handle that then you have no business teaching school. The Israelis have a long long history of aggression.  If the aggression of the Israeli state is not Jewish then who is doing it, the Christians and the Muslims. That is like saying that Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't a serial killer.
 
What a dumb assed comment you have made, but it's not bad for an educated idiot. And I thought all the morons except Vel went to WDC.

Your stupidity is positively breathtaking.

[ivanm]

What makes you think that pointing out the fact that you're a hateful bigot isn't pleasant for me? Of course I can always move your posts to the Recycle Bin.

Dumbass.

Would that make the situation in Gaza go away?

[johnhp]

You need to get a paraphrased version of the bible and read the OT. And if you cannot handle that then you have no business teaching school.

i have no idea what you are talking about.

The Israelis have a long long history of aggression.  If the aggression of the Israeli state is not Jewish then who is doing it, the Christians and the Muslims. That is like saying that Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't a serial killer.
 

So when the US bombs a country that is Christian violence since most people in the US are Christians?