How Pitiful Can Israel Get??

[johnhp]

Tell us again what the law specifically does, if passed...

in your own words....

The law, if passed, would fine the organizers of demonstrations.

[johnhp]

The very FACT that you make these statements here tells all.

YOU DON'T GET IT!!

The Subject of this thread is: "How Pitiful Can Israel Get??". Now, if it had been "Israel Passes A Law!", then your stupid little point might have been made.

Pitiful about what?  According toy our first post, that a law had been passed.  Why not admit the error and move on?

The ENTIRE point that was to be made by posting the original article was that the Israeli government would even think of trying to pass such a rediculous law. But, as usual......you didn't get it, or intentionally didn't want to.

No, the entire point was outrage that Israel had passed a law.  Do you read what you write?

As I said, the very FACT that the Israeli government even came up with a law such as this, WHETHER PASSED OR NOT, is pitiful.

You may have posted something like this long after it was pointed out to you that the law was not, in fact, passed.

How can I get my point across if you continually ignore the FACTS, John? Also, generally people who "get it", (which YOU don't), feel they have to keep repeating themselves in hopes that someday people like YOU will eventually "get it".

How can you get your point across by continuously ignoring the facts.  That is, in fact, your modus operandi.

Unless of course, your "job" is to distract from anything critical about the Zionist Israeli government. Then, you will NEVER get it.

Then maybe you can read the post where i specifically opposed the proposed law.  You seem to miss a lot.

BTW: I too am anxiously awaiting your answer to Lucy's question above, john.

Good for you.

[johnhp]

The opening post looks specific to me so don't blame Holley as she is just the messenger.

The opening post, by Holly, is pretty specific.  The opening post claims the law has been passed.  She is responsible for whether she posts truthful information, or, as in this case (yet again), not.

[Velleity]

WHERE and WHEN did I ever say I hated Jews or Israel??

Always and everywhere.

[johnhp]

You could fuck up a wet dream.  My first post helped to quality what "feelings" could mean. It should be obvious to an adult reader as to whom the law was directed at.  Do the Jews commemorate Nakba?   

Not who, what the first law was directed at.  You and Lucy wrote about feelings.  The law is not and cannot be directed at feelings.  It is directed against the planned observance of Nabka.

[johnhp]

I'm quite sure john doesn't even know what Nakba is.

Do you actually read the posts of the people who show you up?  Tell you what, though, Holly, the next time you are arrested in Israel for opposing the policies of the Israeli government, as I have been several times, let me know and i will recommend a couple of lawyers.  The next time you are detained by the IDF or Mossad, as i have been, let me know.

Until that point, keep your insipid remarks about me and what i know about Palestine and with whom i am aligned, to nil.  And while we are at it, maybe you should not post about Palestine at all.  Every time you post, you weaken the argument against Israel's military policy by reinforcing the stereotype that people opposing that policy are nuts.

[Hollybaere]

Always and everywhere.

Ohhhhhhhh....Geeeeeeeeeeee!! What a great reply!!

Why don't you just admit you GOT NOTHING, and get it overwith?

You can't show proof because you know I never said any such thing!

[Hollybaere]

Do you actually read the posts of the people who show you up?  Tell you what, though, Holly, the next time you are arrested in Israel for opposing the policies of the Israeli government, as I have been several times, let me know and i will recommend a couple of lawyers.  The next time you are detained by the IDF or Mossad, as i have been, let me know.

Who showed me up, john?? By squeeeling about the law being passed instead of focusing on the FACT that the Israeli government had the sheer audacity to even come up with it?? Just where did you and your tag-along Velliety show me up?

I am quite sure if you were arrested and detained for opposing Israeli policy, it wasn't because of their actions toward Palestinian's.

Until that point, keep your insipid remarks about me and what i know about Palestine and with whom i am aligned, to nil.  And while we are at it, maybe you should not post about Palestine at all.  Every time you post, you weaken the argument against Israel's military policy by reinforcing the stereotype that people opposing that policy are nuts.

Unfortunately for you, you can't tell me what I can and can't post. I have been studying Israel and Palestine for many years. I don't just post here off the top of my head. I back up everything, which is far more than you do. Much is from personal experience, so don't think that you are the only one who has experienced the IDF or Mossad first hand. You're certainly not going to hear about any of these rediculous laws on the nightly news. Why do you think that is, john?

The Paelstinian people have EVERY RIGHT to commemorate the loss of their homeland to Israel. And it is idiotic to even come up with a law to try to make it illegal. It just shows that Israel has a guilty conscience.

[johnhp]

Who showed me up, john??

That would be me.

By squeeeling about the law being passed instead of focusing on the FACT that the Israeli government had the sheer audacity to even come up with it?? Just where did you and your tag-along Velliety show me up?

By showing that your post was wrong.  Hell you did not even know the Knesset had considered and rejected the law several times in the past.

I am quite sure if you were arrested and detained for opposing Israeli policy, it wasn't because of their actions toward Palestinian's.

You are wrong about that.  i have been involved, as an activist, on the Palestinian side of establishing a two state solution since the 1980s.  i planned one of the first, largest and earliest protests celebrating the Day of the Land in Atlanta in the 1980s.

What i do not do, is make up conspiracies to justify my political beliefs.  The issue of justice, rather than the existence of conspiracies, is enough to base support for hopes of the Palestinian people and establishment of a state.

Unfortunately for you, you can't tell me what I can and can't post.

i have no such desire.  My only desire is to correct the trash you post in your zeal for what is otherwise a just cause.

I have been studying Israel and Palestine for many years. I don't just post here off the top of my head. I back up everything, which is far more than you do.

Studying something and understanding it are 2 different things.  You would benefit from the latter.  With regard to my ability we have only to look at my first post which is a correction of your "many years" of study.

[lucy]

John, then don't you think it is okay for people to express their FEELINGS in the matter. We're not talking about acts of violence, here.

[johnhp]

John, then don't you think it is okay for people to express their FEELINGS in the matter. We're not talking about acts of violence, here.

If you read the thread closely you will see that i oppose the proposed law.

i brought several things to this discussion:


1. the law is proposed.  2. the law has been proposed before and rejected.

It seems to me that these two put the hysterics of the first post into context and this thread on a factual basis.


3. this is not a law directed at the populace in general, but against the organization of a demonstration.  The general populace would not be subject to the fines proposed by the law.

4. This is not about the right to express your feelings.  This is about the more basic right to organize.  And this right must be defended.  However, it can only be defended with facts, not distortions.  That is my problem with Holly.

[lucy]

So, independent expression of sadness would be okay, but not done as a group of people. There is the question of the wording of the proposed bill....

Anyway, Holly has a point. Even such a bill being considered is really overstepping the rights of a government. No government has the right to suppress a person's FEELINGS about some issue.

Or at least that is how I read this.

I would think with your experience you would be more sympathetic.

[johnhp]

So, independent expression of sadness would be okay, but not done as a group of people. There is the question of the wording of the proposed bill....

Why is this even a question on this thread?  This was corrected in my first post:

It would, if approved, impose monetary fines on the organizers of events.

Anyway, Holly has a point. Even such a bill being considered is really overstepping the rights of a government.

Holly's problem is that she cannot make the case.  She begins with a falsehood and instead of admitting she had erred gets defensive.

No government has the right to suppress a person's FEELINGS about some issue.

Or at least that is how I read this.

I would think with your experience you would be more sympathetic.

This is not about expressing feelings.  It is about the right to organize.


How is it i am not sympathetic?  Did you bother to read the posts i made?

Again, from the FIRST post i made on the thread:

With regard to that, of course this would be an immoral law and should be opposed at the legal level and at the level of public demonstration and at the level of resistance by commemorating Nakba.

What part of that says the proposed law is a great idea?

[lucy]

Please show me where in the law being proposed it differentiates between "group" expression and "individual" expression. Maybe I didn't see this.

[johnhp]

Please show me where in the law being proposed it differentiates between "group" expression and "individual" expression.

The would address public demonstrations and would only do so by fining those who organize them.

An Israeli parliamentary law committee has approved a proposal for a bill that would impose economic sanctions on organizers of Nakba commemorations.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=265702

Maybe I didn't see this.

i have mentioned this several times throughout this five page thread.