How Pitiful Can Israel Get??

[lucy]

I suppose not/

[johnhp]

Can those 1 million Israeli "Arab/Palestinian" citizens express emotions such as "sadness" about the Nakba?

Do you actually read the stories here or facts just not bother you?

[Hollybaere]

Several things.  The law has not been passed; it has been approved by a committee and is up for ratification.  It is up for consideration, as it has been several times before (when it previously failed).

The law as it has been approved for consideration by the Knesset does not have criminal penalties.  It would, if approved, impose monetary fines on the organizers of events.

You should get the story correct before posting it.


With regard to that, of course this would be an immoral law and should be opposed at the legal level and at the level of public demonstration and at the level of resistance by commemorating Nakba.

No john....YOU should get the story straight before squeeling about it.

Several articles clearly state: Israeli cabinet has passed a draft law to punish Palestinians who mark the Nakba or Catastrophe Day--the anniversary of the Israeli occupation of Palestine.

It has not yet been signed into law, but that does not mean it won't.

Just the very FACT that a law like this could even be thought of, let alone presented to the Israeli Knesset, should give you an idea of their criminalistic mind-set.

Also, these 1 million Palestinian's that Velliety claims to be "full- citizen" Israeli's, are subject to laws similar to what blacks were subject to in the US back from the days of immancipation until the late 60's. There are many jobs, stores, roads, and benefits for "Jews Only" in Israel. And don't tell me it's not true either, Velleity!

[johnhp]

Holly,

Two things: "passed a draft law" is not the same as passing a law.  In a parliament it means exactly what i said it means: it has been approved by committee.  This is an important distinction because, in your first post, you claimed that the law has been passed.


As i noted this law has come for consideration before and has never been approved.

As i also noted, if the law passes it should be opposed vigorously.

[lucy]

Why wait to oppose it vigorously until after the law passes. Seems like the time to oppose a proposed law is BEFORE it passes.

[johnhp]

Lucy

Who said wait to oppose it?  Read my first post: i stated that it should be opposed at the legal (that is to say parliamentary) level.

The reason for my first post was to clarify the FALSE information Holly was promoting, not to support the law.

i am glad i could clear up your mistaken impression.

[Velleity]

I suppose not/

How do you suppose Israel's government stacks up against Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and every other crappy government in the Middle East?

Israel is not perfect but it's lightyears ahead of all of the others. Given the forces we're talking about here do you not suppose that maybe Israel has handled it fairly well? Why aren't you as critical of these other countries?

I understand why Holly isn't, but I would not put that on you.

[lucy]

Post some articles and I will comment....my main concern is another war scenario....

[Velleity]

Post some articles and I will comment....my main concern is another war scenario....

I am not that interested in the subject. As far as I know Arab Israeli citizens have issues but they do very well compared to Arabs in Arab countries. I am certain Israel could be better, but we could also be better here in the U.S. in terms of equality. The fact that we have lapses doesn't mean we're not a democracy.

[johnhp]

Post some articles and I will comment....my main concern is another war scenario....

Why not be interested or concerned with being as accurate as possible?

[lucy]

whatever/

[Hollybaere]

I am not that interested in the subject. As far as I know Arab Israeli citizens have issues but they do very well compared to Arabs in Arab countries. I am certain Israel could be better, but we could also be better here in the U.S. in terms of equality. The fact that we have lapses doesn't mean we're not a democracy.

I truly believe that much of the bad things we hear about Arabs in Arab countries is pumped up propaganda, used to make Arab people look like barabrians.

When you compare the equality issues we have here in the US to those in Israel, there is no comparison.

In 1948, the founders of the state declared that Israel will "foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex."

 
But 60 years after these words were proclaimed in Israel's Declaration of Independence, the promise of full social and political equality remains elusive for Israel's 1.4 million Arab citizens.

One in five Israelis is an Arab. Arab citizens of Israel face dramatically higher unemployment and poverty rates than their Jewish counterparts. They are underrepresented in civil service, and receive a grossly unequal share of government allocations and services.

While comprising 20 percent of Israel's population, Arabs are only 5 percent of Israeli college graduates, and many find themselves underemployed and shut out of jobs in the knowledge economy for which they were trained.

Yet despite Israel's economic boom, these gaps are growing.

Equally disturbing is the rise of intolerance and mistrust on both sides of the ethnic divide. According to polling data provided by the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, 75 percent of Israeli Jews oppose sharing a residential building with Arabs and feel uncomfortable hearing Arabic spoken; 56 percent support Arab-Jews separation in places of entertainment; 42 percent are prepared to limit Arab voting rights; and only 22 percent support including Arab parties in governing coalitions.

On the Arab side, the picture is no less disconcerting. Only 33 percent of Arab citizens believe Israel is a democracy; 62 percent believe Israel cannot be both Jewish and democratic; and 94 percent view Zionism as a racist movement, according to the Arab Center for Applied Social Research, Mada-al-Carmel.
More at:http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/16172/

These Arab Israeli's arent given equality of much of anything. There are organisations, such as the Sikkuy, but their success in aiding these Arab Israeli's is very limited.

So, all is not peaches and cream for Arab Israeli's, Velliety, as you want to claim.

[ivanm]

No john....YOU should get the story straight before squeeling about it.

Several articles clearly state: Israeli cabinet has passed a draft law to punish Palestinians who mark the Nakba or Catastrophe Day--the anniversary of the Israeli occupation of Palestine.

It has not yet been signed into law, but that does not mean it won't.

Just the very FACT that a law like this could even be thought of, let alone presented to the Israeli Knesset, should give you an idea of their criminalistic mind-set.

Also, these 1 million Palestinian's that Velliety claims to be "full- citizen" Israeli's, are subject to laws similar to what blacks were subject to in the US back from the days of immancipation until the late 60's. There are many jobs, stores, roads, and benefits for "Jews Only" in Israel. And don't tell me it's not true either, Velleity!

Since when does Israel need a law to sugarcoat its behavior?   

[ivanm]

Why wait to oppose it vigorously until after the law passes. Seems like the time to oppose a proposed law is BEFORE it passes.

Laws can be repealed.  Maybe public outcry will influence the legislative body to rethink its position.  I think that the government here in the US pushes the limit of what might get by the voter's scrutiny.  The bastards hope the people will be apathetic enough or uninformed enough to not raise hell over an asinine law.

Hopefully movements like the Tea Party and the Coffee Party will have a positive influence on our idiot legislators.  It is a matter of one one powerful grass roots group bucking the power of a number of special interest groups that back the laws in the first place.  Government policy has become a hodgepodge of special interest provisions, and to hell with the average schuks.

[ivanm]

Why wait to oppose it vigorously until after the law passes. Seems like the time to oppose a proposed law is BEFORE it passes.

That is the best time, if the voters are let in on the proposal.  I doubt the average Israeli is asked his opinion.