let's clear the air Observer

[nraforlife]

.........................
Some opinions are malicious and pernicious. .......................

your version of marxist obamaism would certainly qualify.

[ivanm]

People argue sometimes, true.

Frankly, it isn't the argument itself that wears me out, but the deliberate attempt to distract anything from a discussion about issues happening in the world that affect US as a nation without having to bring along a lot of extra baggage from other countries, at the moment, unless those countries have the ability to bring us down financially and otherwise in any real way...we are fighting wars that are truly suspect in their origins and their continuing reason to be, imo. We never go there realistically. Most of the time we don our armor of whatever SIDE we happen to be on and fuss away without seeing the future implications or at least trying to see the consequences of our real actions in the world....this is too painful for us, perhaps, to contemplate. Namely, that the US is making huge mistakes which will have grave consequences.

We need objectivity and less divisiveness if we are indeed AMERICANS first and together at all in this boat of ours.

Lucy  the factionalism and rank partisanship has divided us into a number of Americas.  It is all about power and money, the battle of the haves and the have nots. 

If the US keeps on its reckless borrowing then I look for China and other lendors to start putting pressure on us.
Let's just hope they don't turn nasty and gang up on us once they see us as being prostate.  We are much too dependent on foreign money and foreign oil, and these are two of the most basic ingredients of an economy.  All we got right now in the way of surplus is scrap paper, grains, and a lot of unemployed people.  So I don't see us being in much of a bargaining position but we must have someone snowed.  Maybe we are living off our past accomplishments and reputation as a leader of the world? 

I would like to see us get our budget balanced and would also like to see us wind down the wot.  There will be hot spots like Somalia, and it appears we are in there already with special ops people, but do we need a high level presence in those hell holes?  Yemen is another place that promotes hatred of the west.  And the list goes on, so do we spend the rest of our days stepping on roaches?   I don't think we can afford it with conventional forces.

Maybe a little tuneup with some daisy cutters or low yield tactical nukes might cool the ardor of the wannabe martyrs?   But let's stop wasting our blood on a bunch of parasites that eat their young.

[johnhp]

Truth is you & vel present next to nothing in the way of basic facts. What you sprew is merely the PC & opinions of leftwing fanatics.

Yeah.  You are just amusing.

[johnhp]

Lucy  the factionalism and rank partisanship has divided us into a number of Americas.  It is all about power and money, the battle of the haves and the have nots. 

Yes, those have nots: desperately trying to hang on to their money and power.

[nraforlife]

Yeah.  You are just amusing.

The Laugh is on you, Fool

[ivanm]

So why not ignore those you don't care to deal with?  The back and forth banter with them just continues to add fuel to an already no win conversation. You are never going to change their view points nor will they change yours.  Seems like such a waste of energy to me. But what do I know... I suppose if you all put each other on ignore you'd have no one to converse with. 

And so again I ask, why not 'ignore' them?

I'd have to go back and look but I remember reading something one night on here and thinking you were being a bit abrasive with Lucy. Surprised me that you would speak to her in such a way since I thought you two were pretty good friends or had been. Perhaps I misread what you were really saying though.

It is not necessary to call someone names to be disrespectful of them.  That is Vel's stock in trade. I am more open and honest about it.  I call a spade a spade. 

Vel would diss his own family if he thought he could better his agenda by it.  The guy has some issues that we cannot resolve.

[Velleity]

It is not necessary to call someone names to be disrespectful of them.  That is Vel's stock in trade. I am more open and honest about it.  I call a spade a spade. 

Vel would diss his own family if he thought he could better his agenda by it.  The guy has some issues that we cannot resolve.

You are offensive, stump stupid, and ugly but you aren't an issue and there is nothing to resolve.

[ivanm]

People argue sometimes, true.

Frankly, it isn't the argument itself that wears me out, but the deliberate attempt to distract anything from a discussion about issues happening in the world that affect US as a nation without having to bring along a lot of extra baggage from other countries, at the moment, unless those countries have the ability to bring us down financially and otherwise in any real way...we are fighting wars that are truly suspect in their origins and their continuing reason to be, imo. We never go there realistically. Most of the time we don our armor of whatever SIDE we happen to be on and fuss away without seeing the future implications or at least trying to see the consequences of our real actions in the world....this is too painful for us, perhaps, to contemplate. Namely, that the US is making huge mistakes which will have grave consequences.

We need objectivity and less divisiveness if we are indeed AMERICANS first and together at all in this boat of ours.

This is good thinking lucy and it is unfortunate that it has to be down in the slop bucket. 

I once thought that the most recent Iraq conflict was suspect in origin but there is a grain of merit in it. SH was a barbaric tyrant that was cruel to his own people as well as being a threat to peace in the Gulf states.
He apparently had designs to take over the smaller countries and to gain control of the ME oil markets, which would have worked to our disfavor.  Our wrong is not developing our own domestic resources and in so doing ruling out any designs we had for ME oil.  But no, we have American oil patch hogs with interests in the region, Bush's buddies, so we went in.   I also think the invasion was due in part for the deference of Israel as SH had a basic capability to lob missiles at Israel in Gulf I.

As to our invasion of Afghanistan, that is a strange scene over there.  Afghanistan certainly has not been a gratious and cooperative host country, so the only sense I can make of our efforts there is a quest to find and destroy OBL and his henchmen.  The Taliban and Al Qaeda seems to have joined hands in resisting our presence there and the conflict has spilled over into Pakistan.  The Paks must have something at stake or they would not be helping us like they are. Good for them.

As to future consequences, we seem to be damned if we do and damned if we don't, but it is for sure that if we do not resist Islamic extremism it will be seen as a sign of weakness on the part of the greatest country in the world.  This wot is very much a war of words and propaganda because that is the most potent weapon the enemy has right now. If they can turn enough people against us then we will have lost the fight.

Do we lie down and let them run over us?  I hope not.  Can you imagine what things would be like living under Islamic law? Just keep your hand out of the cookie jar if you don't want to lose it?  And keep your head hidden or you might be stoned to death.  Real nice people those Islaic zealots are. All for the sake of what? 

[nraforlife]

........................
We need objectivity and less divisiveness if we are indeed AMERICANS first and together at all in this boat of ours.

sure thing maybe vel & IM2 could start the ball rolling by dropping the endless bogus charges  'anti-semite' and 'racist' agsinst anyone who dares disagree with them from their lexicon.

[Pepsi]

I'm a firm believer that people who disagree can still get along.  I don't know how I can feel that way after witnessing various meltdowns on this board over the years, but I still hold that believe 

[Velleity]

sure thing maybe vel & IM2 could start the ball rolling by dropping the endless bogus charges  'anti-semite' and 'racist' agsinst anyone who dares disagree with them from their lexicon.

Other way around Mr. fringe lunatic. You disavow your racism and anti-Semitism and I'll be glad to forgive and forget.

Of course absolutely everyone else regards you as a fringe lunatic, a racist, and an anti-Semite and I can't speak for them. They may not be as forgiving as I am.

[nraforlife]

..................Of course absolutely everyone else regards you ....................

soooooooo very middleskool, little joo boy

[Velleity]

soooooooo very middleskool, little joo boy

So racist and anti-Semitic, fringe lunatic scumbag.

[nraforlife]

So racist and anti-Semitic,......................

nah just mocking a couple of jackasses who give jews & negroes a bad name.