Healtch Care Bill - Up or Down Vote?

[Velleity]

But they are "illegal" people.  That is the most ridiculous argument that they make.  These undocumented workers are the "perfect" citizens for the rightists: they get little if anything from our society but give so much to it.

They also pay into Medicare and Social Security but end up never using either.

[ivanm]

I was asking if illegal aliens are covered in the healthcare bill, but in answer to your question, the hospital treats the injured and sends him a bill.

And if they cannot get blood from the turnip then the taxpayer picks up the tab or the hospital covers it from profits earned from paying customers.

I don't begrudge anyone who needs healthcare getting it somehow, but we need a better system to cover illegals. 

[johnhp]

They also pay into Medicare and Social Security but end up never using either.

Exactly right.

[johnhp]

And if they cannot get blood from the turnip then the taxpayer picks up the tab or the hospital covers it from profits earned from paying customers.

I don't begrudge anyone who needs healthcare getting it somehow, but we need a better system to cover illegals. 

Allowing undocumented workers to purchase insurance would solve the problem wouldn't it?

[lucy]

That is a reasonable option, frankly. And many , but not all, undocumented workers receive medicaid, foodstamps, etc. And do not pay into the system because they are paid in cash. This is also a fact.

[lucy]

There are other issues to discuss within this debate as well. We are free to debate openly here. Sadly Congress and the Senate don't seem to be able to do this at the moment.

I think there is a frantic push for controls to be put in place before the currency falls or the economy goes bust, or whatever....

just my thought/

[johnhp]

That is a reasonable option, frankly. And many , but not all, undocumented workers receive medicaid, foodstamps, etc. And do not pay into the system because they are paid in cash. This is also a fact.

The net effect of undocumented workers on the economy is positive.  They put in more than they get out.  This includes any programs you mention.

[johnhp]

There are other issues to discuss within this debate as well. We are free to debate openly here. Sadly Congress and the Senate don't seem to be able to do this at the moment.

What issues?

[ivanm]

Allowing undocumented workers to purchase insurance would solve the problem wouldn't it?

How many would do it? How many could afford it? It seems they prefer to remain in cognito. 

[ivanm]

The net effect of undocumented workers on the economy is positive.  They put in more than they get out.  This includes any programs you mention.

I tend to agree with you.  So why not document them and set up a reasonable healtcare program for them?

If they cannot afford to stay in the states then is that any different than an unskilled Gringo not being able to afford to live and work in the high cost cities of America?  We need to stop treating the immigrants like sacred cows. 

[johnhp]

How many would do it? How many could afford it? It seems they prefer to remain in cognito. 

Would allowing them to purchase healthcare solve the problem or not?

[johnhp]

I tend to agree with you.  So why not document them and set up a reasonable healtcare program for them?

If they cannot afford to stay in the states then is that any different than an unskilled Gringo not being able to afford to live and work in the high cost cities of America?  We need to stop treating the immigrants like sacred cows. 

i have no idea what your point is.

[ivanm]

Exactly right.

Do you think they want to?  How many self employed ones pay self employment taxes like I do when I have earned income?  Those people don't want to be seen or found and I am betting they would seldom admit to having a social security card for fear of being apprehended.

Just off hand, how do they ever get a social security number?  If employed by someone the employer pays their tax for them. Something tells me he often uses a soc. sec. number of a deceased or non-illegal person. If he doesn't report the pay then there is no tax to be reported.

My daughter worked for a crooked guy for a short time and he used illegals from the slavic countries.
He didn't pay their soc. sec. tax or withhold any income taxes.  It was a cash deal so the poor workers didn't get squat in the way of bennies like workmens comp. or unemployment pay.

[johnhp]

The point is moot as long as undocumented persons are demonized in our political system.

[lucy]

They are not "demonized"....

Btw, why is it that no one will see any real health insurance/benefits until 2013, despite the fact we will be paying for it with new taxes effective immediately once the bill is passed?