Are Novus Ordo Bishops becoming Catholic?

[IM2]

This entire thread is fucking silly. Novus Ordo is a catholic command for mass. So then Novus Ordo Priests, Bishops and others have been catholic from the jump. you will make any excuse to cover up the blatant wrongs your church has committed. No, that preist who fucked that little boy was not catholic, he was novus ordo. C'mon Mornac, stop being so fucking childish.

[Mornac]

Gay Activists Denied Communion

10/8/2010
By Paul Walsh and Maria Elena Baca -StarTribune.com

During a St. John's Abbey mass, students and others wearing protest buttons and sashes received Archbishop John Nienstedt's hand of blessing rather than the eucharist.

About 25 college students and community members at St. John's Abbey in Collegeville, Minn., were denied communion by Twin Cities Roman Catholic Archbishop John C. Nienstedt because they were displaying rainbow buttons and sashes in protest of the church's stand on gay relationships.

The conflict between the archbishop and the group, mostly students from the Catholic St. John's University and the College of St. Benedict, occurred during evening mass Sept. 26.

It came amid news that the state's bishops were mailing 400,000 DVDs to Minnesota Catholics, spelling out church teachings on gay marriage.

The St. John's action was coordinated by students, including members of People Representing the Sexual Minority (PRiSM), which represents gay and lesbian students and their friends and allies. That Sunday, according to those at the mass, about two dozen worshipers positioned themselves to receive communion from Nienstedt, who was saying his first student mass at the abbey. Some reached for the communion wafer but were denied it. Rather, the archbishop raised his hand in blessing.

The archdiocese long has denied communion to members of the Rainbow Sash Movement, who wear the colors to mass in protest of the church's stance in opposition to homosexual relationships. Its leader, Brian McNeil, said the action at St. John's was not connected to his group.

Archdiocese spokesman Dennis McGrath said the church has told McNeil's group "for years you cannot receive communion if you wear the rainbow sash, because it's a political statement, a sign of protest. Going to the communion rail is the most sacred part of our faith, the eucharist. We don't allow anybody to make political statements or any kind of protest."

St. Benedict theology junior Elizabeth Gleich, PRiSM vice president, said, "We were making a statement during the eucharist, and many have disagreed with that. But when we have no other way of dialoguing with our church, no other way of telling him how we feel, how else to do it than in liturgy?"

She said their complaint is with church hierarchy, not with the colleges.

Another student, senior Andrew Grausam, said he sat behind the group. "It was sad to see the mass politicized like that," Grausam said. "And even though I wholeheartedly disagree with the archbishop on this issue, I was hurt to see my worship become a place of demonstration."

The Human Rights Campaign (HRC), which describes itself as the nation's largest civil rights organization on behalf of gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgender people, expressed outrage at Nienstedt's actions.

"Jesus didn't play politics with communion," Harry Knox, the HRC's religion and faith program director, said Tuesday in a statement. "He offered his body and blood for everyone."

In the Twin Cities area, at least two efforts have gathered hundreds of DVDs from Catholics opposed to its message. Minneapolis artist Lucinda Naylor estimated Tuesday that she'd gathered about 600. A group called Return the DVD has received about 1,000 in its Burnsville post office box, and also has garnered about $5,000 in donations to help the poor, said organizer Bob Radecki.

The archdiocese has received about 100 DVDs back by mail, McGrath said. The campaign was made possible by anonymous donors and not by church funds, he said.

The U.S. Postal Service will not return bulk-mailed items. Spokesman Pete Nowacki said there's no way of knowing how many have been received and discarded.

http://www.catholiccitizens.org/news/contentview.asp?c=52230

[Mornac]

Burke Smackdown	Small | Large

[Mornac]

Acknowledging mistakes, CCHD leaders pledge new fidelity to Catholic principles

Washington D.C., Oct 26, 2010 / 05:24 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- The Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD) launched a program of “review and renewal” on October 26, acknowledging mistakes and pledging to uphold “Catholic principles” in all future decisions.

The chairman of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' CCHD subcommittee, Bishop Roger Morin, spoke to reporters in an Oct. 26 conference call. He was joined by the bishops' Executive Director for Justice, Peace and Human Development John Carr, and by CCHD director Ralph McCloud. They explained steps being taken to uphold Catholic morality while fighting poverty.

Bishop Morin stressed the importance of the campaign, which he said complements other forms of poverty relief and Catholic action. But he acknowledged that some of its funding choices and associations were made in error, and had caused some Catholics --including some bishops-- to question its work. 

Critics have highlighted the campaign's history with groups promoting abortion and homosexuality. The campaign's new guidelines give priority to funding Catholic groups, while screening other recipients more rigorously.

CNA asked John Carr how the new approach would apply to difficult situations, when a choice might arise between achieving important goals with questionable partners, or taking a stand on Catholic “first principles” at the expense of certain worthwhile goals.

“That's not a hard choice,” Carr answered. “If good work is being done, but it's being done by a group that acts in conflict with Catholic social and moral teaching, then they can't have CCHD money.” He promised “a whole new set of tools,” including a new grant process, “to make sure that doesn't happen.” Carr also mentioned an increased oversight role for moral theologians, and a review board for difficult cases.

“We have to be very direct,” Carr emphasized. “A group which may do nice work in housing, but advocates same-sex marriage or federal funding for abortion, is ineligible for CCHD funds-- and if they were to engage in that activity, they wouldn't get it, or would be cut off.”

Bishop Morin agreed, saying the campaign could not become an agent of cooperation with evil in order to accomplish some degree of good. “You're either in, with, and totally committed to what it is that the Church teaches and preaches socially and morally-- or you're not in, and you're not eligible for funding,” the prelate stated.

Deal Hudson of InsideCatholic.com, who has criticized some of CCHD's collaborations, asked about the “tricky issue of coalitions,” citing situations in which a grant from CCHD could go to a collection of groups, some of which may work against the Church, in areas separate from the coalition's aim.

“The coalitions are a complicated area,” Carr said, noting that moral theologians and the planned review board would be offering assistance. He said that while CCHD-supported groups were encouraged to develop such connections, they were “not permitted” to join coalitions working against Church teaching.

He clarified that Catholic groups could join in coalition with groups that happened to hold   objectionable positions, provided that the coalition did not serve those ends in any way. But Carr also acknowledged that “the question of scandal” should prevent coalition-building with particularly notorious groups such as Planned Parenthood, even if the coalition's aim was not controversial.

All of the campaign's spokesmen expressed hope that the campaign's new priorities and procedures would improve its effectiveness as an instrument for Catholic evangelization, as well as poverty relief. “CCHD is important not just for what it does,” they reiterated in a document summarizing the changes, “but for how it demonstrates who we are and what we believe.”

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/acknowledging-mistakes-cchd-leaders-pledge-new-fidelity-to-catholic-principles/

[johnhp]

The question isL WHEN is MORNAC going to become Catholic.  On this site you have promoted protestant ideas from a site that prays for the death of Mr. Obama, you have promoted an argument for the existence of God that was nullified by the church centuries ago and you have abandoned natural law.

You are shamelessly anti-Catholic.

[Mornac]

At this morning’s Mass for the Feast of Christ the King, one of our priests made an announcement. For the past few years their Society (S.J.C.) has been involved in training Novus ordo priests to offer Mass in the regular traditional rite. He informed us that, to date, they have trained some 720 Novus ordo priests either in their workshops or at our parish. He told us about a conversation that he had recently with His Excellency Joseph Perry, an auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Chicago (who offers a Pontifical High Mass at our parish several times a year). Bishop Perry suggested that it is time that they make their services available to Novus ordo bishops. Bishops of course, have a much more complicated role in liturgy and they need top level training in order to be able to offer the regular rite of the Western Church correctly. Many of them were robbed of training in this rite during their seminary years. His Excellency asked if the SJC would be able to make a presentation at the next meeting of the United States Conference of Catholic  so that the Novus ordo bishops will know where and they can receive the training they need in order to be able minister to their flocks in accordance with their vocations. Father said that they would be willing to take up the task and asked for prayers and help in defraying the cost. Ofcourse I'll be more than happy to help the Novus ordo bishops in this regard.

[johnhp]

Why would you care, you have already embraced Protestantism.

[IM2]

Training people to conduct mass  is a show of the problem in your religion Mornac. Pharisees had a lot of ceremony with their religion too.

[johnhp]

i do not think there is anything wrong with ritual.  Of course, when religion is bereft of the thirst for justice and acts to establish it, ritual is nothing.

[IM2]

John,

I agree with you. I say what I do to Mornac because he seems to believe that the practice of such rituals is the most  important thing. So then he can blame the problem on those Novus Ordo Preists who were taught the wrong manner of worship, according to Mornac.

[johnhp]

John,

I agree with you. I say what I do to Mornac because he seems to believe that the practice of such rituals is the most  important thing. So then he can blame the problem on those Novus Ordo Preists who were taught the wrong manner of worship, according to Mornac.

You are right about that.  Unfortunately i am not sure that it does not go deeper than that.  Mornac so obviously believes that his faith must support reactionary political measures.  The guy is a fascist.  i think that is all that needs to be said.

[IM2]

You won't get any argument from me about what you said. When a man votes for La Pen, what type of person they are has already been revealed.

[johnhp]

Exactly.  And told a bald faced lie on another thread.  He should be ashamed.

[Mornac]

Cardinals: liturgical abuse weakens the faith

By Cindy Wooden
3 March 2011

A weakening of faith in God, a rise in selfishness and a drop in the number of people going to Mass can be traced to liturgical abuse or Masses that are not reverent, two Vatican cardinals and a consultant have said.

US Cardinal Raymond Burke, head of the Vatican’s supreme court, said: “If we err by thinking we are the centre of the liturgy, the Mass will lead to a loss of faith.”

Cardinal Burke and Spanish Cardinal Antonio Cañizares Llovera, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, spoke yesterday at a book launch in Rome.

The book, published only in Italian, was written by Fr Nicola Bux, who serves as a consultant to the congregations for the doctrine of the faith and for saints’ causes and to the office in charge of papal liturgies.

The English translation of Fr Bux’s book title would be, How to Go to Mass and Not Lose Your Faith.

Cardinal Burke told those gathered for the book presentation that he agreed with Fr Bux that “liturgical abuses lead to serious damage to the faith of Catholics”.

Unfortunately, he said, too many priests and bishops treat violations of liturgical norms as something that is unimportant when, in fact, they are “serious abuses”.

Cardinal Cañizares said that while the book’s title is provocative, it demonstrates a belief he shares. “Participating in the Eucharist can make us weaken or lose our faith if we do not enter into it properly,” and if the liturgy is not celebrated according to the Church’s norms, he said.

“This is true whether one is speaking of the Ordinary or Extraordinary form of the one Roman rite,” the cardinal said.

Cardinal Cañizares said that at a time when so many people are living as if God did not exist, they need a true Eucharistic celebration to remind them that only God is to be adored and that true meaning in human life comes only from the fact that Jesus gave his life to save the world.

Fr Bux said that too many modern Catholics think the Mass is something that the priest and the congregation do together when, in fact, it is something that Jesus does.

“If you go to a Mass in one place and then go to Mass in another, you will not find the same Mass. This means that it is not the Mass of the Catholic Church, which people have a right to, but it is just the Mass of this parish or that priest,” he said.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/03/03/cardinal-bad-masses-weaken-the-faith/

[Mornac]

Vatican says church philosophy studies must combat suspicion of truth
By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- When training priests and educating students in philosophy, the Catholic Church must combat a widespread sensation that there really is no such thing as permanent, objective truths, a new Vatican document said.

Because so many students are influenced by the cultural suspicion of truth, the Vatican said it will require an extra year of study before a student can earn a church-recognized bachelor's degree in philosophy.

The "Decree on the Reform of Ecclesiastical Studies of Philosophy," released March 22 at the Vatican, updated norms issued in 1979. The decree was signed and presented by Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski, prefect of the Congregation for Catholic Education.

The decree's introduction said the reform is needed primarily because of a shift in the cultural understanding of "the concept of truth. In fact, there is often mistrust in the capacity of human intelligence to arrive at objective and universal truth -- a truth by which people can give direction to their lives."

The document said people must realize that unless there is such a thing as truth, there is no such thing as real charity or love.

The study of philosophy helps people recognize the importance of human reason and helps them hone the ability to reason in order to discern the truth, the document said. At the same time, philosophy studies prepare them for the study of theology by helping them see that knowledge and truth are not limited to what they can see and touch, it said.

The new document sets a minimum of three years of philosophy studies -- instead of two -- for an ecclesiastical bachelor's degree in philosophy. The second degree, a license that allows a graduate to teach in a seminary, continues to be a two-year program after the bachelor's, and a doctoral program must include at least three years of additional research, it said.

The decree also included a broad outline of what must be taught in the bachelor's program; a brief explanation of the philosophy study needed before studying theology; and requirements such as the number of professors a department must have before the Vatican will recognize it as an ecclesiastical faculty of philosophy.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1101141.htm