Author Topic: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread  (Read 231 times)

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Online Mornac

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Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« on: August 10, 2017, 09:17:34 AM »
Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and Harvesting Their Organs

WESLEY SMITH   
AUG 9, 2017   

In my very first anti-euthanasia column, published by Newsweek in 1993, I worried that once medicalized killing became accepted, it would soon be joined by “organ harvesting as a plum to society.”

“Alarmist!” I was called. “Slippery slope arguer!” It will never happen, I was assured.

Until it did.

Now in both Netherlands and Belgium, mentally ill and disabled patients are voluntarily euthanized and their organs harvested after being killed. Canada is discussing joining the infamous duo.

I have waited for the organ transplant community to rise up and reject conjoining killing and organ donation. It has been a wait mostly in vain.

Indeed, a letter in the current Journal of the American Medical Association merely warns against haste in widely instituting such a policy due to safety concerns:

I urge caution before this practice is widely accepted. First, only short-term functional outcomes immediately after transplantation and at 6 months are available. Second, warm ischemia, an inevitable consequence of organ donation after cardiac death, results in greater risk for transplanted organs…

There is a need to study long-term outcomes of transplanted organs resulting from euthanasia so that truly informed consent can be obtained.


How starkly utilitarian can you get?

If all that matters is consent–the clear implication of this letter–why would donors have to be suffering sufficiently to qualify for euthanasia?

Indeed, why not let healthy people who simply want to die and believe others–who want to live–have a greater claim on their livers and hearts volunteer to be killed and harvested?

The authors of the original article make in an equally bloodless, technocratic reply:

Euthanasia is performed according to local protocol by injection of a drug to induce coma, followed by a muscle relaxant. After circulatory arrest, a waiting time of 5 minutes is respected before the patient is transferred to the operating room for organ removal.

Compared with other donations after cardiac death, the process of dying is short (often less than10-15 minutes), and death is not preceded by medical deterioration in the intensive care unit.

Euthanasia donors are, on average, younger than other cardiac death donors. Better transplant results may therefore occur in organ donation after euthanasia compared with donation after other causes of cardiac death, but additional studies are required.


Where are we as a society that killing and harvesting are respectfully discussed in one of the world’s most respected medical journals–and no one brings up crucial issues of right and wrong?

As just one quick example: What could be more dangerous than letting despairing people believe that their deaths could have greater value than their lives? Becoming a donor could be the final factor that induces them to opt for euthanasia or assisted suicide.

For for that matter, how dangerous would it be if society ever came to accept that the hastened deaths of the despairing could offer a “plum?”

Euthanasia corrupts everything it touches–including, it would seem, the ethics of organ transplant medicine.


Live links in original

Online ivanm

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2017, 04:34:51 PM »
Apparently those countries have different standards of morality than America does.

Might there be a risk associated with an organ obtained from a donor who has mental and or physical problems?

Online Mornac

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2017, 04:47:40 PM »
Apparently those countries have different standards of morality than America does.
--They just happen to be on the cutting edge of liberal philosophy. When the Netherlands does something scandalous, the rest of Europe follows in a few short years. After that, the liberals in U.S. work to force it down our throats.

Quote
Might there be a risk associated with an organ obtained from a donor who has mental and or physical problems?
--I doubt it. An organ is an organ. There's no grey matter in those things.

Offline AngryRedMan

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2017, 09:14:33 AM »
--They just happen to be on the cutting edge of liberal philosophy. When the Netherlands does something scandalous, the rest of Europe follows in a few short years. After that, the liberals in U.S. work to force it down our throats.
--I doubt it. An organ is an organ. There's no grey matter in those things.

You bois like to think about things being forced down your throats.
I invited them to, but it was never compulsory. They usually cheerfully accepted, except for the few occasions where my son chose to lie on the floor instead.

Online Mornac

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2017, 09:41:54 AM »
You bois like to think about things being forced down your throats.
--Anybody know what he's talkin' about?

Online RealityHasALiberalBias

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2017, 10:26:13 AM »
--Anybody know what he's talkin' about?

He's mocking you, dumbass. How do you not understand that?

Online RealityHasALiberalBias

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2017, 10:28:14 AM »
--They just happen to be on the cutting edge of liberal philosophy. When the Netherlands does something scandalous, the rest of Europe follows in a few short years. After that, the liberals in U.S. work to force it down our throats.
--I doubt it. An organ is an organ. There's no grey matter in those things.

The fact that they're not Primordial Traditionalists like you doesn't make them "cutting edge" anything.

You're about 600 years behind.

Offline AngryRedMan

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2017, 10:38:54 AM »
The fact that they're not Primordial Traditionalists like you doesn't make them "cutting edge" anything.

You're about 600 years behind.

At least.
I invited them to, but it was never compulsory. They usually cheerfully accepted, except for the few occasions where my son chose to lie on the floor instead.

Online Mornac

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2017, 10:49:18 AM »
He's mocking you, dumbass. How do you not understand that?
--I dunno. I just don't get the point of his remark. Care to explain it too me?

Online RealityHasALiberalBias

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2017, 02:11:55 PM »
--I dunno. I just don't get the point of his remark. Care to explain it too me?

Et parantur obtusi.

Offline Steve McGarrett

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2017, 04:32:04 PM »
I'm amazed at the garbage this guys tries to pass off as creditable "sources" and even more amazed that he actually takes them seriously.  Have you noticed how he likes to toss the words "fascists" and "Nazis" around at the drop of a hat?  I'd give anything to see him confronted by a holocaust survivor, or any Jew with relatives who experienced firsthand abuse by those groups.   ;D

Offline AngryRedMan

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2017, 05:39:59 PM »
I'm amazed at the garbage this guys tries to pass off as creditable "sources" and even more amazed that he actually takes them seriously.  Have you noticed how he likes to toss the words "fascists" and "Nazis" around at the drop of a hat?  I'd give anything to see him confronted by a holocaust survivor, or any Jew with relatives who experienced firsthand abuse by those groups.   ;D

When I think mornac I think someone sympathetic with the plight of suffering people, especially if they are not Christians....No, really the guy is a dick.
I invited them to, but it was never compulsory. They usually cheerfully accepted, except for the few occasions where my son chose to lie on the floor instead.

Offline AngryRedMan

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2017, 05:41:03 PM »
--I dunno. I just don't get the point of his remark. Care to explain it too me?

Writes the guy who throws in the words felching and fisting.
I invited them to, but it was never compulsory. They usually cheerfully accepted, except for the few occasions where my son chose to lie on the floor instead.

Online Mornac

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2017, 10:11:57 PM »
I'd give anything to see him confronted by a holocaust survivor, or any Jew with relatives who experienced firsthand abuse by those groups.
--I'd give anything to see you confronted by this one. We made her a saint. Her feast day was two days ago.

Sancta Edita - ora pro nobis.

Offline Steve McGarrett

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Re: Liberals rush in where Nazis dared not tread
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2017, 10:20:17 PM »
--I'd give anything to see you confronted by this one. We made her a saint. Her feast day was two days ago.

Sancta Edita - ora pro nobis.

I didn't click your link.  I know better.  Your posts are an insult to Jews everywhere.