58% Favor Waterboarding of Plane Terrorist To Get Information

[Observer]

Paul BLart,


Nah, I won't shut up, because I am right. You are theone who needs to shut the hell up, but youare so damn stupid that you don't know when you are wrong. I mean you are borderline retarded Blart. Its why you are a mall cop now.

I said I am not going to argue with you because I am going to tell you how things are. You have no argument here son. I don't give a fuck how long you claimed to be working in security. After all there is a very large difference between national security and mall security.

You talk a lot of trash for a coward who runs and hides behind phony addresses when someone accepts your challenge and offers to give you a chance to prove what a badass you are.

I cut the rest of your bullshit out because like you, it just takes up space and serves no purpose.

You have never done anything in your life except ask other people for money. You are a leech and a coward. If you are so sure waterboarding is not an effective interrogation technique, why don't you do this, and I'll extend this challenge to the other armchair generals on the forum... Volunteer to be waterboarded by a trained professional and keep a secret that only you and an uninvolved witness know.

You, Johnny Boy, Dagon, Velleity, Pepsi... any of you. Go ahead and do it, THEN you can come back here and comment with authority on the subject. To make sure you do it, videotape it and post it on youtube with a link on the forum.

[IM2]

Observer,

I have hid behind nothing. My postion with you is plain. The offer stands still now. If I was so damn scared why do I continue extending the offer to you? I don't give out my information over the internet. So you played yourself when you claimed to make the call. Because I still am in contact with people there and no one has ever told me that I got any calls. So keep repeating the lie you wish to believe. Because you talk a lot of trash for a old ass man.

Your cutting out the truth shows what type of person you are. You are wrong chump and what you have to do is deal with it.

You have never done anything in your life except ask other people for money. You are a leech and a coward. If you are so sure waterboarding is not an effective interrogation technique, why don't you do this, and I'll extend this challenge to the other armchair generals on the forum... Volunteer to be waterboarded by a trained professional and keep a secret that only you and an uninvolved witness know.

You ask other people for money also dumb fuck. All who are in business are asking people for money.The experts said what they did about waterboarding.  Just because they do not agree with your mall cop fake John Wayne silly assed version of how we should conduct national security doesn't mean you have to act like a mother fucking child. I am not going to try getting waterboarded, experts have spoken on enhanced interrogations. If I were an enemy combatant and believed that I was in a struggle for the survival of my people, waterboarding would mean nothing to me. If I was in a spiritual war and i knew that if I die, a great reward awaits me, then waterboarding would not work either. This is the opposition we face today nutcase, and its why such methods as you endorse will never fucking work. 

When a group of people are willing to undertake suicide missions, or to blow themselves up as a method of fighting battles, waterboarding is not going to be effective. I have not ever served in the military and I can see that. Common sense dictates this son, and I know that when sense was passed out you demanded dollars, but damn, aren't you able to understand the nature of the opposition, Mr. I worked in national security for 23 years therefore I am the only one who can talk about this peice of trash?

So let me remind you how wrong you really are.

Gen. Petraeus: Torture yields information ‘of questionable value.’
“Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy. That would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary. Certainly, extreme physical action can make someone ‘talk;’ however, what the individual says may be of questionable value.” [Gen. David Petraeus, Letter to Multi-National Force-Iraq, 5/10/07]

.

Again these are words from general David Petraeus, who is there in the middle of the fight. He is not on the internet trying to impress the gullible with his supposed knowledge of national security. Like I said, I'm done arguing this with you. I am going to tell you why you are wrong and you are going to accept it.

[Observer]

Observer,

I have hid behind nothing. My postion with you is plain. The offer stands still now. If I was so damn scared why do I continue extending the offer to you? I don't give out my information over the internet. So you played yourself when you claimed to make the call. Because I still am in contact with people there and no one has ever told me that I got any calls.

If I hadn't called, they would not have been able to tell me you were a "former employee" who couldn't be reached at that number any longer.

You are a liar, IM... a liar and a coward.

[IM2]

Observer,

If I hadn't called, they would not have been able to tell me you were a "former employee" who couldn't be reached at that number any longer.

You are a liar, IM... a liar and a coward.

Again, I have made my position very plain as it pertains to whatever challenge you think you have made.

Whether or not you called, the phone number I gave, or the fact that you think I am supposed to be scared of you is not the subject of this thread. Stay on subject Observer, after all isn't this what you told me when the quesison was posed in the health care forum?  The subject of this thread is waterboarding. You claim that the technique has been successfully used to gain information that has made this nation more secure. I say it has not, and have shown examples from miltary leaers and interrogators who wer ethere who disagree with your assessment.

Your claim of my cowardice is your way of trying to change the subject because you have been shown to be wrong and utterly lacking.

So stick to the subject chump.

Army JAG: ‘I don’t think [torture] is all that effective.’
“If you torture somebody, they’ll tell you anything. I don’t know anybody that is good at interrogation, has done it a lot, that will say that that’s an effective means of getting information. … So I don’t think it’s effective.” [Major General Thomas Romig, former Army JAG, 11/19/07]

This is the truth you ignore. Therefore it is YOU who is the coward.

[Observer]

You are quoting a JAG officer.

That's an Army Lawyer. He is not an intelligence officer. He is not an interrogator. He's a lawyer.

His opinion on the subject doesn't matter any more than yours does.

[IM2]

Observ er,

You are quoting a JAG officer.

That's an Army Lawyer. He is not an intelligence officer. He is not an interrogator. He's a lawyer.

His opinion on the subject doesn't matter any more than yours does.

Uh I would think that a miltiary justice official who has to interpret the evidence produced by such interrogations  words would have more meaning than a wannabe tough guy mall cop. I quoted General Patreaus also and I guess what he says is irrelevant too. Oh yeah I also quoited an interrogator:

FBI Interrogator Ali Soufan: Torturing Zubaydah was unnecessary.
“I’ve kept my mouth shut about all this for seven years,” Soufan says. But now, with the declassification of Justice memos and the public assertions by Cheney and others that “enhanced” techniques worked, Soufan feels compelled to speak out. “I was in the middle of this, and it’s not true that these [aggressive] techniques were effective,” he says. “We were able to get the information about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in a couple of days. We didn’t have to do any of this [torture]. We could have done this the right way.” [Newsweek, 5/4/09]

Zubaydah revealed KSM’s Identity BEFORE being tortured.
“He [Zubaydah] was transferred from Pakistan to Thailand, where Soufan and Gaudin immediately sought to gain his trust by nursing his wounds. … During this time, Soufan and Gaudin also began the questioning; it became a ‘mental poker game.’ At first, Abu Zubaydah even denied his identity, insisting that his name was ‘Daoud.’ But Soufan had poured through the bureau’s intelligence files and stunned Abu Zubaydah when he called him ‘Hani’ – the nickname that his mother used for him. Soufan also showed him photos of a number of terror suspects who were high on the bureau’s priority list. Abu Zubaydah looked at one of them and said, ‘That’s Mukhtar.’ Now it was Soufan who was stunned. The FBI had been trying to determine the identity of a mysterious ‘Mukhtar,’ whom bin Laden kept referring to on a tape he made after 9/11. Now Soufan knew: Mukhtar was the man in the photo, terror fugitive Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and, as Abu Zubaydah blurted out, ‘the one behind 9/11.’ … Soon enough, Abu Zubaydah offered up more information – about the bizarre plans of a jihadist from Puerto Rico to set off a ‘dirty bomb’ inside the country. This information led to Padilla’s arrest in Chicago by the FBI in early May.” [Newsweek, 5/4/09]

Soufan: Enhanced techniques on Zubaydah produced ‘no actionable intelligence.’
“Nothing gained from torture of Abu Zubaydah produced information that wouldn’t have come from traditional techniques. We discovered, for example, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. Abu Zubaydah also told us about Jose Padilla, the so-called dirty bomber. This experience fit what I had found throughout my counterterrorism career: traditional interrogation techniques are successful in identifying operatives, uncovering plots and saving lives. There was no actionable intelligence gained from using enhanced interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah that wasn’t, or couldn’t have been, gained from regular tactics.” [Ali Soufan, New York Times op-ed, 4/23/09]

Soufan: Padilla, KSM, other plots disclosed through regular interrogation, NOT torture.
“Claims that torture led to disclosure of Khalid Shaikh Mohammad is false. Defenders of these techniques have claimed that they got Abu Zubaydah to give up information leading to the capture of Ramzi bin al-Shibh, a top aide to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, and Mr. Padilla. This is false. The information that led to Mr. Shibh’s capture came primarily from a different terrorist operative who was interviewed using traditional methods. As for Mr. Padilla, the dates just don’t add up: the harsh techniques were approved in the memo of August 2002, Mr. Padilla had been arrested that May.” [Ali Soufan, New York Times op-ed, 4/23/09]

So I guess the interrogators words are irrelevant also. He was there doing the interrogating, but Onbserver  a person who was not anywher near the shit, who has not served in the military for years , who has never interrogated one fucking person in this whole affair, his words has the authoritative words on this issue.

Wrong.

Look chump, what you say doesn't mean shit. I have shown you what those in on the interogations have said. This issue is no longer open for debate betwen me and you. I am not going to argue with you when I have shown you that what you said is wrong. All you have left is to keep trying to tel me I'm wrong over and over again like its going to change the words that you have been shown.  Each time you do this, I am going to post up another quote from the experts. You have been shown the truth, and you must accept it. Thats all you have left.