"Conservatives" Like Polaris Conflate Raw Capitalism With Democracy

[Velleity]

• Tweet

Listening right now to Thom Hartmann and he could not have been more spot on about the shit Polaris a/k/a "Lightworker" a/k/a pumpkin tried to pull today. He's saying that "conservatives" conflate the idea of raw capitalism with the idea of democracy.

How do you "conservatives" make this connection between lassaize faire capitalism and democracy? They are 2 different things, completely. However you wouldn't know that from your rhetoric.

[johnhp]

Of course they do.  It is part and parcel of the idiotology.  And if the "brown people" have to die, so much the worse for them, i suppose.



Of course, in the real world it looks like this:



and this:

[ivanm]

Listening right now to Thom Hartmann and he could not have been more spot on about the shit Polaris a/k/a "Lightworker" a/k/a pumpkin tried to pull today. He's saying that "conservatives" conflate the idea of raw capitalism with the idea of democracy.

How do you "conservatives" make this connection between lassaize faire capitalism and democracy? They are 2 different things, completely. However you wouldn't know that from your rhetoric.

Rather than jumping to judgment why not try to reason and make some sense out of what he said or might have meant.  Let's try backing into a better understanding of what he may have meant. Would or does capitalism fare well under an authoritarian form of government such as that in the former USSR or in early Red China? I would say that capitalism has a better chance of succeeding in a realm where there is less control of or intrusion into the affairs of the private sector.

This whole things seems to be rather academic to me in that there are few if any pure capitalisms and few if any pure democracies in the world.  One is more apt to see situations where there is a blend of capitalism with various degrees of government control.  Here in the states we do not have pure capitalism any more than the Brits have pure socialism as an economic order.

I have always associated capitalism with democratic styles of government.  Is there some reason I should not do so.

"How do you "conservatives" make this connection between lassaize faire capitalism and democracy?" 
 
Yes, one is an economic system and one is a politial system but I think that a democracy provides the best environment for the laissez faire capitalism to flourish. I don't think that unbridled capitalism is a good deal because of the abuses that come with too much power being concentrated in too few hands, but on the other hand, over regulation of the business sectore can stifle the incentive to invest and to take risk.

Vel, why are you so down on capitalism? What has it done to you?  Look at the progress America has made in a few short centuries compared to that of the older countries who have been struggling for a much longer time.  In spite
of the abuses our system has out performed other coutries hands down.  If our economic system is so bad then why do so many other countries try to emulate it?

Look at the cup being half full rather than being half empty. For every family that hasn't done well under capitalism there are millions  more who have done well.  Currently we are having a rough time of it with the recession, but so are the more socialistic countries of the world, particularly in Europe. 

I grew up in a small relatively poor farm family and had little going for me but two loving hard working parents, a sound body, and a fairly bright mind.  I applied what I had to life and have done well.  No one has stood on my head to hold me down and at the same time I have received only a modest amount of help from the federal government, and that I did receive I contracted for, so it wasn't a handout.  I gave the USAF another six years of service in exchange for a chance to complete my college degree.

You claim to have a law degree so if you aren't doing well then who is to blame?  I just don't understand your attitude towards America.

[ivanm]

Johnp:
Are you trying to say that international communism did not involve bloodshed?  Where were you during the Korean Conflict or the Vietnam War?  Name me a country that has prospered under communism better than it could have under a less authoritative order.

Freedom in not free john and it is not guaranteed either, so yes there are failures at trying to spread it around to countries that are suffering under some sort of authoritarian regime.  You seem to be big on the S. American countries and their travails.  Name me a dozen that have had stable governments like we have. 

I think there are much worse things for a country to do than to emulate or political and economic orders.

[johnhp]

Johnp:
Are you trying to say that international communism did not involve bloodshed? 

Are you just out of your mind?  How do you jump to these absurd conclusions?

Where were you during the Korean Conflict

i was negative 14 years old at the end of the Koran war.

or the Vietnam War?

i was a child.

Name me a country that has prospered under communism better than it could have under a less authoritative order.

What are you talking about?  Where are you getting this from?  i would, however, say Afghanistan did much better under their communist government than they have in the period from its fall to September 11, 2001.

Freedom in not free john and it is not guaranteed either, so yes there are failures at trying to spread it around to countries that are suffering under some sort of authoritarian regime.

Oh.  You seem to think that Chile's government before the Pinochet coup was something other than a representational government.  Completely untrue.

You seem to be big on the S. American countries and their travails.  Name me a dozen that have had stable governments like we have. 

Are you referring to governments we helped prop up or governments we helped overthrow?

I think there are much worse things for a country to do than to emulate or political and economic orders.

You mean having an economic system forced on them by an authoritarian client state?

[IM2]

Polaris is not an american first of all ,so then he really doesn't understand how the system really works.

Secondly he spends each day listening to Rush Limbaugh, so then he is even more misinformed.

This nation has never had lassiez faire economic policy. The "invisible hand" has been congress and thanks to the depression, the fed.

Conservatives don't seem to get this.

We have seen the result of their ideology, and they still think their way is the best way to go. After seeing such a grand failure, one would think wise people would rethink their economic policy.

I guess the key words are wise people.

[Velleity]

Conservatives don't seem to get this.

Welcome IM!

I disagree. I think they get it just fine. They just think they're going to get somewhere with their strategy of denial and disinformation.

[IM2]

Hi vel,

Its great to be in a place with sane people.

I do not disagree with your assessment. These guys would deny that there are 24 hours in a day if a republican "leader" said there was 25.

[Observer]

These guys would deny that there are 24 hours in a day if a republican "leader" said there was 25.

The actual length of a day is 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.09 seconds.

[IM2]

observer,

The actual length of a day is 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.09 seconds.

So? I don't believe we are at NOPC anymore.

The reality here is that what your side believes in, that capitalism and democracy are  the same thing, is fallacy.

[Observer]

observer,

So? I don't believe we are at NOPC anymore.

What does that have to do with the length of the day?

[IM2]

Observer,

What does that have to do with the length of the day?

What does the length of day have to do with the fact that capitalism and democracy are not the same thing?

[Observer]

I have never said they were the "same thing". However, anyone with an IQ over 3 understands the fact that the two are intertwined and one drives the other.

[ivanm]

Are you just out of your mind?  How do you jump to these absurd conclusions?




i was negative 14 years old at the end of the Koran war.



i was a child.



What are you talking about?  Where are you getting this from?  i would, however, say Afghanistan did much better under their communist government than they have in the period from its fall to September 11, 2001.



Oh.  You seem to think that Chile's government before the Pinochet coup was something other than a representational government.  Completely untrue.





Are you referring to governments we helped prop up or governments we helped overthrow?




You mean having an economic system forced on them by an authoritarian client state?

In your post #1 you imply, at least to me, that the result of capitalism is violence and death.   I think that any economic order that allowed to run wild can result in violence and death. 

Why the reaction in your first two questions?  Have I hit a nerve?  A little bird has told me about your political orientation so you will have one hell of a time trying to convince me that you are totally opposed to free market economics. 

If anyone thinks that a country does better under communism than otherwise that tells me something about his maturity. As you said, you were a child and apparently haven't advanced much beyond that stage.  Wise up man, it is the socialists that are usually on the defensive on this forum and not the capitalists. The basic problem with socialistic economies is that they eat the geese that lay the golden eggs.

[ivanm]

Hi vel,

Its great to be in a place with sane people.

I do not disagree with your assessment. These guys would deny that there are 24 hours in a day if a republican "leader" said there was 25.

In spite of their faults there are damned few who think the world "owes" them something they didn't earn.